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Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 21:59:51 +0100
From: Davide Mana <ti.loi|eed.rotcod#ti.loi|eed.rotcod>
I do not know if the news has already reached outside of Italy, but it is now official: the basic text used by the Catholic Church for Exorcisms has been modified and "updated" after more than 400 years.
Interestingly enough, it has also surfaced that the general protocols and investigation procedures - but not the rituals - had already been updated in 1958 by order of Pope Pius XII. The current modification of the ritual has been presented as the final step of that upgrading begun 41 years ago.
That sure make you wonder what did they find out in '58 to require such an update, and also why it did take so long fo update the ritual.
As a result of all this the head of the DIGOS (civilian secret service branch) special unit that right here in Turin is investigating satanist circles and cults was interviewed tonight on national television. While keeping vague on some obviously classified points, the lady did give quite a few interesting data on the kind of work her people is doing and the kind of structures they are investigating.
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 15:33:11 -0800
From: Josh Shaw
As a result of all this the head of the DIGOS (civilian secret service branch) special unit that right here in Turin is investigating satanist circles and cults was interviewed tonight on national television. While keeping vague on some obviously classified points, the lady did give quite a few interesting data on the kind of work her people is doing and the kind of structures they are investigating.
And the gist of this was……..????????!!!!!!!
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:08:04 +0100
From: Davide Mana
And the gist of this was……..????????!!!!!!!
Disappointing.
[nice to see that teasers still work, though ;>]
However here's what the DIGOS lady summed up
. two competing satanist-oriented cults (nothing to do with Anger's thing - we are talking independent and possibly much older Satan Churces here) are currently operating in Turin, Italy, after a scism in the main cult somewhere in the '70s
Note: Turin is considered the most haunted town in Italy - the wealth of uncanny happenings, legends and whatever apparently draws crackpots to this town like a beacon. The fact that in the mid '80 the Pope himself thundered against the satanists in town during a visit, and then appointed five more exorcists for the Turin Urban Area just served as further advertisement. We get some pretty weird chaps around here.
[ Some data on the uncanny are summarized on my Turin Cthulhu page:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/zenith/134/turin.htm
At least two articles (Germana Grosso and Mount Musiné) might have Delta Green relevance]
. both cults are legit as far as the Italian Constitution is concerned - as Italy grants freedom of religion and cult. But….
. charges of (in order of increasing gravity)
- atti osceni (obscenity)
- vilipendio alla religione (offence to religion)
- vilipendio di cadavere (desecration of corpses)
- detenzione ed uso di stupefacenti (drug possession and abuse)
- abuso di minori (abuse of minors)
- violenze su minori (violence on minors)
- omicidio (homicide, both premeditated or not)
have been confirmed and are being further investigated (and that's where DIGOS comes in - note that they report directly to the Ministry of Interior)
. both legit, highly organized cults and bunches of amateurs are present in Italy; while law enforcement generally considers the latter as the most dangerous (for themselves and for others), maybe unsurprisingly the former are attracting the major flak from the Vatican authority
. the Turin cults are extremely secretive and highly active. While nothing definite is known about the leadership, apparently two high profile figure in the town economical elite should be leading the two cults (justifying the suspicion that both cults have a significative component of "elite appeal").
. the DIGOS lady denied that her unit (number of operatives unknown) is actively infiltrating the cults. "Of course we are not using undercovers" was the exact phrase.
One interesting point the dame made about the whole structure of the cult, was a parallel between drug pushing and cultist activity when the hooking up of new recruits is concerned. The lower echelons of the cult include individuals whose role is contacting possible recruits and slowly introducing them in the structure (the term the dame used could be translated with "breaking", as with horses).
Little else of interest was offered.
A note on cult-related crimes - according to official sources, each year in Italy five or six persons die in conjunction with cult rituals, almost nothing compared to many other causes of death even considering Italy's relatively small population. The mindlessness of the crimes generally compensates the scarcity. The latest case has two teenaged girls in central Italy that apparently killed a school pal thinking this would enable them to get into a coven.
Much worse are cases of violence, desecration and harassing, on which official figures are not available as many are not even brought to the attention of the law.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:02:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew D. Gable"
Note: Turin is considered the most haunted town in Italy - the wealth of uncanny happenings, legends and whatever apparently draws crackpots to this town like a beacon. The fact that in the mid '80 the Pope himself thundered against the satanists in town during a visit, and then appointed five more exorcists for the Turin Urban Area just served as further advertisement. We get some pretty weird chaps around here.
I'm a bit confused here. Do Papal Exorcists serve a different purpose than the exorcists we're familiar with? From the above, it sounds almost as if they're a sort of anti-demonic police force.
vilipendio di cadavere (desecration of corpses)
Are you sure they're Satanists and not a CULTES DES GOULES-type thing?
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:56:53 -0500
From: "Eric Brennan"
I'm a bit confused here. Do Papal Exorcists serve a different purpose than the exorcists we're familiar with? From the above, it sounds almost as if they're a sort of anti-demonic police force.
In the Catholic Church, there's really no such thing as a "papal exorcist." It's merely a standard priest whose been trained to perform exorcisms. They're not special forces, but probably priests who've are well versed with the rites and the lore of the subject. They've also probably sat in on one or more exorcisms, and they have special dispensation to perform the rites. (Not just any priest can do an exorcism.)
I can't speak for the priests in Italy, but Stateside the Jesuits seem to be the ones to handle this sort of thing. Since the real incident the movie "The Exorcist" is based on happened up the road from me, and the topic has come up, I know a little bit about it. A lot of the facts in the movie were a bit screwy from real life, but the fact is the victim of the possession was "spirited" (forgive the pun) away to a Jesuit safehouse. That's where the actual exorcism was performed. Anyone interested in the whole story e-mail me and I'll write what I know.
vilipendio di cadavere (desecration of corpses)
Are you sure they're Satanists and not a CULTES DES GOULES-type thing?
Every half-assed Satanist in the world likes digging up bodies. There were some cases around here, around where Jim Bise lives. (Coincidence? I'd like to think so…) The guy who did it and his coven of slope-browed troglodytes took items from graves as "status symbols." Basically, just conversation pieces for the Satanic set. Real ghouldom would involve eating the bodies, which is pretty unhealthy with modern embalming techniques as well as the 2-4 day lag time in burial in the States. Them thar meats is spoilt, boys. Muslim and Jewish bodies may make your mileage vary, due to religious strictures resulting in quicker interment. I also imagine using bones as a spice would get around the spoilt meat problem and satisfy whatever necrophageous impulses the individual has.
Marylyn Manson (a.k.a. Kevin the Orange Julius clerk) wrote in his autobiography about smoking some bones taken from a grave he and some bandmates dug up. That's freaky, but kinda goofy when you think about it. Exhuming a grave is hard work (I have an essay on the subject around here somewhere…) just to smoke some poor schmuck's bones, which to the best of my knowledge have no "recreational" properties at all.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:00:13 +0100
From: Davide Mana
Some minor clarifications…
Andrew wrote
I'm a bit confused here. Do Papal Exorcists serve a different purpose than the exorcists we're familiar with? From the above, it sounds almost as if they're a sort of anti-demonic police force.
Eric summed up it nicely
In the Catholic Church, there's really no such thing as a "papal exorcist." It's merely a standard priest whose been trained to perform exorcisms. They're not special forces, but probably priests who've are well versed with the rites and the lore of the subject. They've also probably sat in on one or more exorcisms, and they have special dispensation to perform the rites. (Not just any priest can do an exorcism.)
Right.
To be more precise, as far as I know, exorcists are required a deep theological background, with special coverage of the Goo/Evil issues. Also, they generally study the cases on record and for a while are appointed as assistants to already practicing exorcists. While theoretically any priest or indeed any Christian can try his hand at exorcism this is discouraged by the Church and specialists do exists, usually Jesuits or Dominicans.
On the point of corpses…
vilipendio di cadavere (desecration of corpses)
Are you sure they're Satanists and not a CULTES DES GOULES-type thing?
Every half-assed Satanist in the world likes digging up bodies.
OK, real life case from last year, somewhere near Bologna (great city Bologna - great food, great women, a pair of psichopatic serial killers on the lose and the most widely publicized amateur satanic cult in Italy).
However… there's this guy, twentysomething university drop-out type, that's giving his parents (a very simple middle-aged couple) some major preoccupations.
Does not have a work.
Gets out only at night.
Listens to some weird music.
Probably is doing drugs.
His room is locked and they can't get in.
The windows are painted black.
So one day when the Carabinieri (special police) rings them up they are almost relieved. When they get the charges the mother faints: the boys in black caught Junior in the Jewish cemetery, digging up an old grave. They go to his room, batter the door down and there they find -
- enough hash to send a small sized village into lower orbit
- a piton living in an empty aquarium (and almost starved, poor thing) . two tarantulas
- assorted stuff taken from graves (pieces of clothing and jewels) and
- about 200 kgs of assorted bones, not enough to build whole skeletons for the
- dozen or so skulls laying about, but still a pretty assortment.
- This was a half-assed Satanist and was nailed for "Vilipendio di cadavere", and for theft of the stuff from the graves and a few other minor charges (cruelty to animals and possession of a member of a protected species). Please notice that the guy would not have recognized the "Cult De Ghoules" had the Good God dropped a pristine copy on his head, and anyway would have been to stoned to make any sense of it.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:45:00 -0800
From: "Mark McFadden
I'm a bit confused here. Do Papal Exorcists serve a different purpose than the exorcists we're familiar with? From the above, it sounds almost as if they're a sort of anti-demonic police force.
In the Catholic Church, there's really no such thing as a "papal exorcist."
Is too is too. It's a department of the Holy Inquisition, they're exclusively Spanish and no one expects them.
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:37:09 -0500 (EST)
From: The Man in Black
I'm a bit confused here. Do Papal Exorcists serve a different purpose than the exorcists we're familiar with? From the above, it sounds almost as if they're a sort of anti-demonic police force.
DUH! Of course the Order of St. Jerome and the Order of St. Leopold are all over this situation.
vilipendio di cadavere (desecration of corpses)
Are you sure they're Satanists and not a CULTES DES GOULES-type thing?
It's all the same.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:00:12 +0900
From: "David Farnell"
First to Davide: Thanks for posting all the Italian names of the crimes—I love including little details like that in scenarios (in fact, just yesterday I asked a French-Canadian coworker about a few French terms for a Carcosan thing I'm doing).
Agent Eric wrote:
That's where the actual exorcism was performed. Anyone interested in the whole story e-mail me and I'll write what I know.
I think it would be a nice addition to the list, myself. I can easily imagine using it as the basis for a scenario, and the real-life details would help a lot.
The guy who did it and his coven of slope-browed troglodytes took items from graves as "status symbols." Basically, just conversation pieces for the Satanic set.
Reminds me of "The Hound."
Real ghouldom would involve eating the bodies, which is pretty unhealthy with modern embalming techniques as well as the 2-4 day lag time in burial in the States.
Now there's another problem for the Ghouls, and something we can expect to see them trying to manipulate us on. Some group trying to convince people to stop embalming bodies—maybe a neo-pagan "natural burial" thing.
Date: 27 Jan 1999 08:37:03 GMT
From: "Jacob Busby Bsc."
Note: Turin is considered the most haunted town in Italy - the wealth of uncanny happenings, legends and whatever apparently draws crackpots to this town like a beacon. The fact that in the mid '80 the Pope himself thundered against the satanists in town during a visit, and then appointed five more exorcists for the Turin Urban Area just served as further advertisement. We get some pretty weird chaps around here.
Over here we have East Grinstead. :)
For the interested, about 1/3 of Jesus' miracles involved driving out demons so it shouldn't be too surprising that exorcism is still performed today.
BTW What does DIGOS stand for in Italian and in English?
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:05:35 +0100
From: Davide Mana
BTW What does DIGOS stand for in Italian and in English?
D.ivisione
I.nvestigazioni
G.enerali
O.perazioni
S.peciali
= General Investigations Division - Special Operations
Established 1978, they replaced the old "Political Offices" in police commands and districts. DIGOS is the branch of the secret services that covers civilian activities (and therefore political questions). In truth, DIGOS seem to have quite a free hand when it comes to that matter - with a minimum of creativity, politrical relevance can be attached to anything, and therefore anything can be investigated by DIGOS. Admittedly, in the '80s (once the terrorist menace was defused) this was abused quite often, and today the Ministry of Interior is keeping closer tabs on the guys activities. Sure as hell, they still surface in most major criminal investigations, just to be on the safe side.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 10:13:35 -0500
From: "Eric Brennan"
Due to popular request (or at least David Farnell's request), here's what I have heard from a couple of Catholic priests about the true story behind the Exorcist. There is another case, in the late 40s, which Blatty has said was the basis for his novel, but I've heard that was misinformation on his part, to protect the actual event, and the real victim, who still lives in the DC area. The rite performed in the '40s was also performed by the Society of Jesus, who have a surprising number of members who are ex-Special Forces nowadays. (Interesting Conspiracy Fact #312)
First of all, it was a young boy rather than a girl, as stated in the movie. This was many years ago, and around the age of 12 or so he started going through some changes, and became a problem child. Bigtime. His parents took him to a number of local psychiatrists, all of whom were at a loss for his behavior and the reason for the changes. Finally, around the third psychiatrist, the good doctor pulls them aside and says that the boy's behavior is truly inexplicable, and quietly suggested the boy should see a priest.
The parents, being rational folks, pretty much laughed, but a couple of weeks later ended up seeing a local priest. Now those were the early days after Vatican II, and a lot of people even within the Catholic Church were making noises about Satan and the like being symbolic for all sorts of things, rather than real forces. (I've yet to actually meet a priest who doesn't believe in real, tangible evil though… read into that what you will.) This priest went into the boy's room (hereafter referred to as "Billy," as his name was protected and only the priest, the Cardinal and some Jesuits know what it really is) and had a chat.
The priest came out a couple of hours later, rather shaken, and told Billy's parents that he had to go see his superiors. He stated that Billy showed all of the signs of possession. The speaking in Latin thing was indeed a sign, as the boy had no knowledge of the language. He was also suddenly well versed in catholic lore, which was a surprise as his parents were Protestant. At this point, Billy's extreme behavior seemed to bear out this hypothesis, so the parents asked the priest to do what he could. So then Father called his Bishop, and the bishop called the Cardinal.
Note: Our area's supreme authority is the Cardinal of DC… I can't comment on how the Catholic Church power structure works in your area, but historically our Cardinal has always taken an active hand in local matters. The priest who summed up these events said that normally, a Bishop has to hear the evidence of possession and make the decision as to go ahead with the exorcism or not. This time, it went up to the Cardinal.
So that was that. The Priest went back and told the parents that they could rid Billy of the spirit, but he'd have to be taken to a retreat. The parents said okay, and some Jesuits showed up and carted Billy off for a while. The Jesuits performed the actual exorcism, and of what they did no one knows the details, except that it happened in the Midwest. Per Davide's story, the Italian Church may run things differently, but around here there is no blanket license to exorcise. Permission has to be gotten, and it's typically the Society of Jesus who handles the real cases.
Billy comes home a few weeks later with spotty memories about what happened during the period of possession. His story ends there. The priest who first discovered Billy's story goes on…
He retired shortly thereafter and kept to himself. He may have taught at a local seminary. (I forget.) He died about a year later. When they discovered the body, his hair had turned white (probably a rumor) and he'd left behind a diary. In the diary, it talked about how he'd had horrible visitations, and had been quite literally driven to his grave by an evil presence. Once again, the Bishop is consulted, and the priest is given burial and the diary is given to the Jesuits, who take notes and then burn it. Everything in the room is burned as well.
That's how it was told to me, by a priest who worked in the area. I was told that a certain number of exorcisms are done every year (a much smaller number than people think) and that in most cases it's purely a psychological thing for the well-being of those afflicted with a mental disorder. Once in a long while, the real thing comes around.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 18:34:26 +0100
From: Davide Mana
Here's a few more details about exorcising, the Catholic way, as per latest update of the ritual.
General Rules for the Exorcist
- he must be cautious and exercise judgement, to determine if he is really facing possession or if it is just a case of psichological problems
- he must be able to distinguish between Devil Intervention and Popular Credulity (= Self-Suggestion) - in the latter case, rounds of prayer are generally enough to solve the problem
- possessed persons show "typical signs": speak unknown languages, they show deep aversion for God, are endowed with unusual strenght
- should the doubt persist, he is required to call upon experts in spiritual matters (= big shot theologists) and psichological and medical consultants
- f the possessed person is not catholic the case must be brought to the authority of the Bishop
- the exorcism must be performed pending the consensus of the possessed person
- the exorcism must be performed so that the Faith of the Church is clearly manifested at work, so that the whole cannot be mistaken for magic or superstition
- the phisical and psichological condition of the possessed person must constantly be taken into account
- he must weight if the relatives or friends of the possessed person should be present during the ritual; in the case they are allowed to stay, they have to be engaged in prayer
- the exorcism must be performed in a church, with the Crucifix in plain sight
You can compare the above guidelines with the facts as described by Eric.
And as we are at it, a nitpicking bit:
The priest who summed up these events said that normally, a Bishop has to hear the evidence of possession and make the decision as to go ahead with the exorcism or not. This time, it went up to the Cardinal.
Note that "Cardinal" is a rank in the Church structure that can be compared with that of "Prince"; the Bishop is the Cardinal in charge of the whole setup in a given area.
Of the two, one: either Eric switched the two tags (nothing tragic - I had to check this out to make sure), or DC has a Cardinal appointed to take care only of this kind of things (which can start us on a whole line of investigation….)
As for the Ritual itself
First - sprinkle with Holy Water, as a symbol of the Baptism sacrament
Second - prayers are pronounced to call upon the protection of God and celebrate the victories of jesus on the Evil One
Third - a passage from the Gospel is read, then the hands are imposed on the possessed person, invoking the Holy Spirit so that the devil is cast out
Fourth - more preyers are recited, the Crucifix is brought forth and a Sign of the Cross is drawn on the posessed person to mean the power of Christ
Fifth - The Deprecative Formula is pronounced in which God is celebrated, followed by the Imperative Formula ("Vade retro, Satana" - latin for "Retreat, Satan") with which the devil is banned.
Of course, "don't try this at home kids"
To close with a cutting ironic bit - Father Corrado Balducci, the Vatican pointman on matters of Demonology, interviewed in these days by the media, has plainly advised all Satan worshippers out there to see an exorcist _now_.
Journalist: "Why should a satanist see an exorcist?"
Balducci: "A guy that dreams up the idea of worshipping Satan is clearly not well. When you are not well, you sooner or later seek professional help."
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:12:32 -0500
From: Doctor TOC
As for the Ritual itself <snip>
An excellent source for this is Malachi Martin's "Hostage to the Devil". Though perhaps slightly dated now and chock full of Jesus (now with extra Savion!! Washes sins whiter than white!), this book delves deeply into the whole exorcism thing and includes a brief handbook on exorcism, case studies, notes on possession, and an appendix with the entire text of the Roman Ritual of Exorcism (unfortunately it's in English). I've used this book to great effect in the past, and it's great for pulling out those disquieting little details in the middle of a game.
It's also a big thick book that's really useful for lobbing across the table at idiot players, if you catch the aroma of the repast I'm preparing.
From: "Eric Brennan"
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:54:32 -0500
Note that "Cardinal" is a rank in the Church structure that can be compared with that of "Prince"; the Bishop is the Cardinal in charge of the whole setup in a given area.
Of the two, one: either Eric switched the two tags (nothing tragic - I had to check this out to make sure), or DC has a Cardinal appointed to take care only of this kind of things (which can start us on a whole line of investigation….)
I thought it went (from highest) Pope -> Cardinal -> Archbishop -> Bishop -> Priest -> Deacon, although Cardinal is an honorary title (strictly speaking, he's a Bishop with special duties…same with an Archbishop, except the Cardinals get to vote on who's the next Pope. An Archbishop is like an executive Bishop, to grossly oversimplify). There's also a title called "Monsignor," but it's largely one of respect for a job well done by a priest, and carries with it no separate authority. I know we have a few Bishops running around here but only one Cardinal (currently Cardinal Hickey…nice guy.)
As for the rest of Davide's report on the rite, it fits with my limited knowledge. As a good Catholic, I've always been kind of in awe of the rites of the Catholic Church, but outside of a copy of the "Malleus Maleficarum," haven't really found out much about the exorcism rite (except for what was told to me in relation to the movie.)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 15:15:22 -0500
From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr."
Oddly enough, Catholic priests aren't the only ones who perform exorcisms. I have heard of a few Baptist ministers who have performed the same things, with entirely different rites. From my understanding (and this isn't a bad hook for DG) the rites are much less important than the level of belief involved.
By that understanding, priests/ministers/etc who honestly believe in evil in a real and tangible sense would be able to perform exorcisms, but others would not. This understanding has been used in several different ways, but most notably and most often with stories involving vampires.
I'll have to look around and see if I can find any real-life stories from ministers. If I do, I'll recount them, if desired.
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 17:02:33 -0500
From: Graeme Price
Oddly enough, Catholic priests aren't the only ones who perform exorcisms. I have heard of a few Baptist ministers who have performed the same things, with entirely different rites. From my understanding (and this isn't a bad hook for DG) the rites are much less important than the level of belief involved.
This puts me in mind of some of the TV-evangelist "healers" out there. The ones who get a room (read auditorium) full of people and whip them up into into some sort of faith-driven frenzy and then "heal" select volunteers by "laying on hands" (or from a Channel 4 documentary I seem to recall from a few years back, more like pushing them over backwards). This may or may not be accompanied by words like "demons out" or some such.
Now as I recall, some of these guys claim to have been able to cure such things as blindness, deafness, paralysis, cancer (of various flavours) and other such maladies… but there seems to be no follow up done to see if such miracles have lasting effects.
Now perhaps I'm just a cynical agnostic (I thought about becoming a full atheist once, but I couldn't make my mind up), but this could be a great plot hook for DG. Note that I'm not trying to offend anyone's religious sensitivities here, but some of these guys could be quite dangerous (having cancer patients stop taking their therapy becuase they think they have been cured, for example)… in fact I'd be quite happy to accept that some of them are actually sucessful (after all, the mind may have some curative properties that we haven't even begun to grasp at yet).
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:30:20 +0100
From: Davide Mana
Now perhaps I'm just a cynical agnostic (I thought about becoming a full atheist once, but I couldn't make my mind up),
<aside> Atheism is just another religion. Agnosticisim is scientifically sounder!
[just a great way to make enemies. Sorry]
but this could be a great plot hook for DG. Note that I'm not trying to offend anyone's religious sensitivities here, but some of these guys could be quite dangerous (having cancer patients stop taking their therapy because they think they have been cured, for example)…
Agnostic you may be, but you are exactly on the same wavelength of Italian demonologist Father Balducci - according to the guy, official exorcists are the best tool to keep poor people from getting in the hands of assorted TV miracle-workers, touch-the-screen healers, cut-rate witch-doctors and other assorted swindlers.
The guys _are_ dangerous - at best they sell illusions, at worst they keep people from seeing a doctor, actually causing damage. I know of at least one instance of a serious illness that could have been avoided had the subject consulted a doctor instead of a tarot reader when the first symptoms manifested.
Credulity can kill you.
in fact I'd be quite happy to accept that some of them are actually successful (after all, the mind may have some curative properties that we haven't even begun to grasp at yet).
We'd all be, I guess.
Something on the subject of patient attitude as significant in curing cancer is covered by Fritjof Capra's "Uncommon Wisdom" (IIRC). Quite interesting, actually.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:42:45 +0900
From: "David Farnell"
By that understanding, priests/ministers/etc who honestly believe in evil in a real and tangible sense would be able to perform exorcisms, but others would not. This understanding has been used in several different ways, but most notably and most often with stories involving vampires.
Of course, we must not forget that belief in evil would have no effect on exorcisms of Mythos critters (such as the Shan), who are not "evil," but alien (although the Shan come pretty darned close—malicious little bastards!). Just another great moment of cosmic horror to spring on your players, as the "possessed" gets out of bed and rips the priest's head off, or worse.
This doesn't mean that the Church doesn't have secret "Mythos magic" exorcism rituals (which may be truly horrifying to enact). Might be connected to the recruitment of Special Forces guys into the Society of Jesus—yep, further evidence that the Jesuits have their own little DG-style conspiracy going on!
I'll have to look around and see if I can find any real-life stories from ministers. If I do, I'll recount them, if desired.
Of course it's desired, as long as it's interesting! Eric Brennan's "Story behind The Exorcist" was great--more stuff like that just adds wonderfully to the "bouquet" of a scenario including an exorcism. I mean, stuff from this list (even the utterly off-topic stuff--but this is NOT a call for more off-topic stuff, as the on-topic stuff is MUCH more useful and usually more interesting) is always finding its way into my games, often as tiny details that help bring the game more alive.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:12:42 -0000
From: "Crossingham, Adam"
Eric Brennan elaborates on what really happened:
He was also suddenly well versed in catholic lore, which was a surprise as his parents were Protestant. At this point, Billy's extreme behavior seemed to bear out this hypothesis, so the parents asked the priest to do what he could.
Sounds a good story - but why would Protestants initially take the child to see a Catholic priest rather than their local Protestant (name your flavor) priest? But given that other denominations can also do exorcisms (as has been mentioned on the list) why start with the Catholic Church? Perhaps they have a better image or seem more reliable than the average televangelist preacher?
ObDG: In England, the Church of England still does exorcisms as well - it's just they prefer not to call them exorcisms (in fact they call them something completely different which escapes me now) and they don't advertise that they do them.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:35:54 -0500
From: "Eric Brennan"
Sounds a good story - but why would Protestants initially take the child to see a Catholic priest rather than their local Protestant (name your flavour) priest? But given that other denominations can also do exorcisms (as has been mentioned on the list) why start with the Catholic Church? Perhaps they have a better image or seem more reliable than the average televangelist preacher?
While I will not speak for all Protestant running-dog lapsed Catholics, I believe that when Jim speaks of the other Protestant sects he speaks of Baptists and certain other groups (I'd bet good money 7th Day Adventists have an exorcism rite). For those who don't know, Jim is so Baptist he has been known to cause physical pain to those around him…the only thing that stops him is my assertion that all Protestants are technically lapsed Catholics. And that Jesus was Catholic. And so was Adam. I do not believe that true-blue Martin Luther Protestants have an exorcism rite (or at least one they use), partially due to the fact that the ones I've met tend to be little more rational and a lot less ritualistic in their religious practices. I was also under the impression that the psychiatrist in question felt that if the boy was experiencing self-caused symptoms, and if there were no supernatural elements, the trappings of the rite would be efficacious. But I also heard that the psychiatrist was Catholic and was convinced the boy had problems of a…delicate nature. As for the comment about the Catholics having a better image than televangelist preachers, out of respect for Jim I shall not comment ;)
"The Catholic Church….Serving your spiritual needs since about a half hour after Christ died."
—Failed advertising slogan for the Catholic Church
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:49:53 -0500
From: "Elliot A. Rushing"
Sounds a good story - but why would Protestants initially take the child to see a Catholic priest rather than their local Protestant (name your flavour) priest? But given that other denominations can also do exorcisms (as has been mentioned on the list) why start with the Catholic Church? Perhaps they have a better image or seem more reliable than the average televangelist preacher?
Disclaimer: This is *all* opinion.
I grew up southern Baptist — not fundamentalist — in a relatively "normal", tolerant Protestant upbringing. I always viewed my pastor as a person worthy of respect, more than a person of authority.
Then I went to Georgetown (run by the Society of Jesus — Jesuits (Catholic)), where I took several classes (including one on nuclear ethics!) taught by priests — these guys will often have five or six post-graduate degrees (!). I also attended mass fairly regularly, given my view of the Catholicism/Protestant differences being more intellectual than theological (that's simplistic, but you get the drift).
After I met my first wife (an Irish Catholic), I became interested in doctrine and so forth, because conversion was a possibility (I didn't), so we had to have permission (IIRC from the Bishop of the Brooklyn Diocese) for the marriage, et al. Eventually, due to (I suppose) reasonable circumstances, she left me pretty suddenly and without prior warning (which is enough on that for now), I returned to NC, we got divorced, and I *think* (though I'm not sure) she was successful in getting the marriage annulled in Catholic terms (which really saddened me, because in order to do that you have to swear to some pretty horrible things about the relationship — "a union without love" and other things that really make my eyes water to think about, so we'll leave that alone, too).
Now that you know where I'm coming from:
As far as Christianity is concerned, nothing comes close to Catholicism (definite runner-up is the derivative Anglican-Episcopal Church) in terms of ritual, pageantry, and most importantly, an almost unassailable aura of intellectual and theological authority, especially given the clear divisions between lay folks and clergy.
In stark contrast, one of the central intellectual bases of Protestant Christianity is the firm belief that individuals need *no* intercessor (priests) between them and God. This is a powerful thought, but the side-effect is that it greatly reduces the necessity and authority of clergy on a theological level.
Exorcism is definitely a theological emergency.
Who would I call? A Catholic priest.
They rock. :)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:12:29 -0500
From: "gerald mckelvey"
Exorcism is definitely a theological emergency.
Who would I call? A Catholic priest.
They rock. :)
The point about the Jesuits is well taken, they are some of the best legal minds I have ever seen. And oddly enough, some of the best computer programmers I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. Must be all that chanting I guess. They have a long history of learning tho, and if I remember correctly the Jesuit order had a lot to do with keeping the dark ages not so dark. I think the Franciscans had something to do with the preservation of knowledge too, but i'm afraid my amateur armchair view of history can't confirm that.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:40:28 -0500
From: "Eric Brennan"
Eliot A. Rushing wrote:
Disclaimer: This is *all* opinion.
But fairly accurate…comments below.
As far as Christianity is concerned, nothing comes close to Catholicism (definite runner-up is the derivative Anglican-Episcopal Church) in terms of ritual, pageantry, and most importantly, an almost unassailable aura of intellectual and theological authority, especially given the clear divisions between lay folks and clergy.
Off-topic, but I've got to comment: In point of fact, Anglican clergy, if they convert to Catholicism, can retain their status, as they are the only other Church to follow Apostolic Progression. This leads to an interesting quandary which hasn't popped up yet. The Anglicans allow female clergy. The Catholics don't. But an Anglican, as I said above, can convert and retain their status. So what happens if a female Anglican clergy-person converts? Hmmm.
In stark contrast, one of the central intellectual bases of Protestant Christianity is the firm belief that individuals need *no* intercessor (priests) between them and God. This is a powerful thought, but the side-effect is that it greatly reduces the necessity and authority of clergy on a theological level.
This is where the DG comes in. Catholicism centers around lot of things, but one of them is the idea of intercession. This means you get other people/things to communicate to God for you. This allows some pretty cool DG adventure seeds to pop up
— Intercession: Amongst other things, depending on who you talk to, this includes dead relatives interceding for you. This has always struck me as being a weird twist on necromancy, but I believe it works.
— The idea of transubstantiation (the Communion wafer literally transforming into the body and blood of Christ) has some pretty sinister uses if some Mythos Cultists use it, and think about the Ghoul version…
— Clive Barker had a cool short story about a prehistoric demon appearing and choosing an Anglican priest as his apostle… I believe it's called "Rawhead Rex"
— The Vatican has it's infamous vaults o' suppressed literature. I wonder what could be found there? Can you say Necronomicon? Black texts recovered from the Crusades or the suppression of the aboriginal New Worlders will end up here. Also lots of porn. DG having to get access to that vault makes a neat adventure idea.
— Not specifically Catholic exclusive, the Book of Revelations has some really interesting descriptions for the beasties to appear during the Last Battle (Pepsi, proud sponsor of the End Times), and on a related note Jack Parsons and L Ron Hubbard tried to summon up the Whore of Babylon from Revelations. The Whore of Babylon makes a great "Mask" of Shub-Niggurath, Goat in the Woods with a Thousand blah blah blah. (I've turned the entire Parsons/Hubbard/WoB/Crowley thing into a Conspiracy X campaign… parties interested in converting it to DG , with the exception of Jim Bise may e-mail me and I'll forward it. It's got a ton of neat links on that angle.)
[ Editor's note: Eric's material about Crowley & Co. is now securely stored into an Ice Cave file for future reference ]
— As stated earlier, a ton of Jesuits are ex-Special Forces. Their also extraordinarily educated, and handle exorcisms. Perfect DG friendly/foe material. A scary idea is after an adventure, the DG cell members end up Jesuit friendlys…
— What if Catholic rites were corrupted Mythos rites? And that's just off the top of my head at 8 am. Can anybody think of anything else?
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:03:51 -0500
From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr." <moc.glo|rjbeimmij#moc.glo|rjbeimmij>
While I will not speak for all Protestant running-dog lapsed Catholics, I believe that when Jim speaks of the other Protestant sects he speaks of Baptists and certain other groups (I'd bet good money 7th Day Adventists have an exorcism rite). For those who don't know, Jim is so Baptist he has been known to cause physical pain to those around him…the only thing that stops him is my assertion that all Protestants are technically lapsed Catholics. And that Jesus was Catholic. And so was Adam.
I can really only speak for the various brands of Baptists out there, and what Elliot said earlier is pretty much on the beam. The Catholic religion is, IMO, the most ritual and tradition-heavy religion I've encountered. It's history is long and laudable, and that alone is enough to bring folks to them when looking for religious help. Now consider that the only exorcists I had heard of, at least in the media, were Catholic, and you can understand how Protestants might come to a Catholic.
Protestants, and Baptists in particular, are thought to be a great deal more freeform in their religious practices and haven't been helped any by the frauds and fakes out there. They've been damaged a lot more in most people's minds by those charlatains than the Cathloic church has. Of course, it helps that the Catholic church has a very large and very powerful "spin mechanism" to make sure that bad press doesn't last long. That's a good thing, IMO, but it could be one heck of a DG hook should DG agents run afoul of the church, or wish to use the church as a scapegoat.
I think when it comes to actual rituals, Catholics have the most involved, and Methodists and Episcopalians (and other religions that seem to retain the outward appearances of Catholicism) would have them also. Baptists, Charismatics, Non-Denominationals, and such would have a whole lot less ritual. Eastern Religions are out of my experience, but I'd guess that each does things their own way.
How is this handy to DG? Well, having Agents purporting to be members of the Church is a pretty good cover (depending on the Church, and if the Church in question finds out) and knowing some of those rituals can keep the charade going longer. Also, knowing how ministers handle exorcisms add lots of interesting flavor in any adventure, because you can always drop in the occasional tidbit.
ObDG: DG agents snatch an subject of investigation by making it look like the subject is being taken for an exorcism. The Church finds out and sends some investigators of their own. Perhaps the Catholic Church has glove cleaners, too…
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:27:50 +0100
From: Davide Mana
It's all a matter of _where_ you place your bugs…
Off-topic, but I've got to comment: In point of fact, Anglican clergy, if they convert to Catholicism, can retain their status, as they are the only other Church to follow Apostolic Progression. This leads to an interesting quandary which hasn't popped up yet. The Anglicans allow female clergy. The Catholics don't. But an Anglican, as I said above, can convert and retain their status. So what happens if a female Anglican clergy-person converts? Hmmm.
— Transcript begins
— Vatican City, Forbidden Library Reading Room
Cardinal Ratzinger: "Your Holiness…. we must do something about the guys."
JP2nd <chuckles>: "You been reading Delta Green posts again, eh?"
Ratzinger<heated>: "They got to the protestant female clergy conversion problem. They are meddling…"
JP2nd: "So you suggest…?"
Ratzinger <getting increasingly excited>: "Wipe out the list. Secure the archives. Try and condemn the members. Excommunicate Pagan Publishing - with a name like that half the work's done. And I'll take care personally of the renegade catholics that are part of the cabal <sniggers>"
JP2nd: " … "
The door bangs open.
Enters exorcist father Corrado Balducci
Balducci: Hey RAT zinger, do you really believe you can browse through my private mail and then try and bend JP's ear with your slandering allegations, steal my Ray-Bans and DISRESPECT ME!? YOU BETTER RECOGNIZE~! "
— Transcript ends
Sorry for the silliness. More on-topic comments later as I'm on the run.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 12:20:12 -0500
From: "Eric Brennan" <moc.slore|cniarea#moc.slore|cniarea>
Cardinal Ratzinger: "Your Holyness…. we must do something about the guys."
JP2nd <chucles>: "You been reading Delta Green posts again, eh?"
Ratzinger<heated>: "They got to the protestant female clergy conversion problem. They are meddling…"
JP2nd: "So you suggest…?"
Ratzinger <getting increasingly excited>: "Wipe out the list. Secure the archives. Try and condemn the members. Excommunicate Pagan Publishing - with a name like that half the work's done. And I'll take care personally of the renegade catholics that are part of the cabal <sniggers>"
If they wanted to get me, all they'd have to do is tell my aunt, Sister Mary Rosita AKA Leah Brennan, that I'm still playing role-playing games, and then describe the content of DG. No place would be safe for me. There are members of my family that don't even blink at some hard deeds but run in fear of Sister Mary Rosita. MJ12 uses her to take care of troublesome DG Cells. She is a force of nature in a brown habit. Andrea sometimes uses her to plug leaks in the cells by convincing her it's for the good of the Church.
I once brought up the possible female Anglican clergy conversion trouble. (Shudders…) I don't want to talk about it. Great post, Davide.
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:38:18 -0600
From: "Russell Mirabelli"
As to the concept of Baptists being lapsed Catholics and so on, I can only offer this as my thought on the matter: I'm a lapsed Catholic myself, though active in my local Protestant church. There have been times when people at my church have talked about "excorcism", and my reaction was "do you have *any* clue what kind of fire you're playing with?". I ersonally view the Catholic church as having a little more knowledge than the average bear in this regard (being educated by the Augustinians, and nearly entering the priesthood, did have something to do with that).
also, Eric Brennan suggested:
— The idea of transubstantiation (the Communion wafer literally transforming into the body and blood of Christ) has some pretty sinister uses if some Mythos Cultists use it, and think about the Ghoul version…
This reminds me of one the weirdest characters I ever played in a CoC campaign. I was playing a priest, and the priest was abducted by Ghouls. Since the Keeper killed my character in a way that he didn't like, he decided to let me play the character after he was finished with a little job— "converting" the Ghouls to Catholicism. It was actually pretty cool, though my investigator did have that weird eating habit from then on…
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 13:25:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew D. Gable"
ObDG: In England, the Church of England still does exorcisms as well - it's just they prefer not to call them exorcisms (in fact they call them something completely different which escapes me now) and they don't advertise that they do them.
Trepannations? Sorry, my shan-addled mind is wandering again.
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 18:38:42 GMT0BST
From: Robert Thomas
That's how it was told to me, by a priest who worked in the area. I was told that a certain number of exorcisms are done every year (a much smaller number than people think) and that in most cases it's purely a psychological thing for the well-being of those afflicted with a mental disorder. Once in a long while, the real thing comes around.
There was an article in the Sunday Times here last Sunday about a possession and exorcism performed in the late 1970's. The only significant fact that I can remember now (I'll see if I still have the paper when I go home tonight) is that the priest performing the exorcism was Pope John Paul II (just before he was made Pope, the location was in Poland). Interesting that someone who was considered an unlikely choice for Pope before his election has performed an exorcism, and the fact that it was kept quiet until very recently (well I hadn't heard of it other list members may have and may be able to add to this). Possibly the requirement for election to Pope goes something like this:
1 Believe in God.
2 No criminal convictions.
3 Can perform Exorcisms.
Sorry bad joke but it dead quiet in work tonight.
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:17:00 -0800
From: "Mark McFadden
Possibly the requirement for election to Pope goes something like this:
1 Believe in God.
2 No criminal convictions.
3 Can perform Exorcisms.
Let's not forget that this Pope is John Paul II. John Paul I, his predecessor lived only (IIRC) about two months after putting on the Fisherman's Shoes. Was there a coup, or did they chose a candidate that could defend himself in future? Hey, he survived an assassination attempt.
And what sort of message is being sent by choosing the name John Paul, twice? Beatlemania? I doubt it.
John, the mystic madman that had the Revelations, and Saul/Paul the enemy of the Church that became a saint? There's some heavy symbolism to bat around.
P.S. Check Tom Robbins "Another Roadside Attraction" for some ideas of what's in the Vatican vaults. A character (due to plot complications to convolute to compress) becomes the martial arts instructor for the Swiss Guards. He discovers the fine pornography collection ("there's a Rembrandt of a couple screwing in a haystack that still makes me scratch and sneeze in vicarious pleasure"), the plaques that were at the foot of each head on Easter Island when the first missionaries got there, the library administered by blind nuns, and the locked room with a very special occupant.
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 12:16:12 +0100
From: Davide Mana <ti.loi|eed.rotcod#ti.loi|eed.rotcod>
I'm back on line after a 72 hours blackout - my ISP simply decided to delete my subscription and net access. Sure teaches me to joke about Cardinal Ratzinger ;>
On the issue of Pope JPII…
Fellow Tom Robbins reader Mark McFadden wrote
And what sort of message is being sent by choosing the name John Paul, twice? Beatlemania? I doubt it.
John, the mystic madman that had the Revelations, and Saul/Paul the enemy of the Church that became a saint? There's some heavy symbolism to bat around.
Well, the name was actually chosen by Cardinal Luciani (aka JPI), and does have a pretty mundane meaning - popes John XXIII and Paul VI are those that came before JPI.
John XXIII - aka Il Papa Buono (The Good Pope) - humanized the role of the pontifex, while Paolo VI (no nicknames allowed) was a master politician and diplomat.
Poor John Paul the First meant to follow the lead of both his predecessors, but was not lucky (strong? crafty? politically apt?) to make it. JPII simply duplicated what proved to be a very intelligent PR choice.
Sure, the above might be just a posthumous rationalization.
Maybe Luciani had some insider's knowledge and some ideas of his own, and was about to take action when they retired him?
Was he really taking inspiration from the two saints?
John was the mystic, but also the Apocalypse visionary, while Paul was a practical man and according to some the responsible of some heavy retrofitting of Christ's message in order to reach a wider audience. Cathastrophe and change?
A big castle of speculations could be built on these slight bases.
And here I stop before my account once again slips into oblivion.