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John Nyx:
I made some notes several months ago while going through my Pagan Publishing materials and some Chaosium books (CHA2386 - v5.6 basic rulebook & CHA2394 - Dreamlands). The Chaosium material was skimpy; the Pagan stuff was great.
This is what I came up with for a human transforming into a lesser ghoul, using BRP & Pagan Publishing's Mythos (inc non-DG works). We'll assume transformation via "The Ghoul's Manuscript", so let's start with the book itself. There are two versions to choose from:
The Ghoul's Manuscript, by Scott David Aniolowski
TUO#4 pg43-44, or see online description here:
http://tccorp.com/pagan/pp_tuo4.html#Mysterious
This version of the book is statted as follows:
+5 Mythos, -1d10 SAN; Spells (INTx1): Call Mordiggian, Contact Ghoul, +1d3 others
-1d10 SAN when finally succumbing to necrocannibal urges after # days
1d6 days to transform, -1d10 SAN/day until transformation is complete
Average SAN loss using this method is between 20 and 45 points.
See also Dark Denizens of Dreams and Beyond: The Mythos Additions of Clark Ashton Smith, also by Scott David Aniolowski:
http://tccorp.com/pagan/pp_tuo4.html#Denizens
…especially "The Great Ghoul Mordiggian, the Charnel God (Great Old One)".
A second version of "The Ghoul's Manuscript" appears in the DELTA GREEN sourcebook (PAG1005), p058:
"The Ghoul Manuscript"
Lang: English (sub literate)
Mythos: +5
SAN: -1d4/-1d10
Spell Multiplier: x1
Study time: 52hrs
Spells: Call Mordiggian, Cloud Memory, Consume Likeness, Contact Ghoul, Enthrall Victim
No notes on SAN losses due to a growing hunger for corpses and the resulting physical transformation, so use the online version if you wanna go that route.
Hmm, what sort of notes on the "Ghoul Manuscript", ghouls and the Dreamlands has Agent Nancy put together for A-Cell? Anyone wanna describe & stat "Nancy's Notes"?
See pg57 for info on Agent Nancy and her ghoulish NPC stats. Pg13 gives us slightly dated ghoul "big picture" info in the mid-1990s.
There's an account of Debra Constance/Jean Qualls/Agent Nancy's transformation in the novella "Identity Crisis", which is in the sadly out-of-print "Alien
Intelligence" collection:
http://tccorp.com/armitage/ah_productlist.html
Here's what I worked out for the actual transformation:
ghoul stat changes:
STR: +6
CON: +1d6
POW: +1d6
DEX: +1d6
SIZ: +1d6-3, min roll = 0 for no change
INT: unchanged
EDU: unchanged
APP: -2d6
ghoul attacks:
- both claws & bite in a single round
- if bite strikes home, can hang on instead of using claw attack & worry victim
with fangs for 1d4 damage automatically; STR vs STR to dislodge what amounts to
a successful Grapple & end Bite damage
ghoul weapons:
Claws 30%, damage 1d6+db
Bite 30%, 1d6 + automatic worry
ghoul armor:
firearms & projectiles = 1/2 rolled damage, round up fractions
ghoul skills: [human base]
Burrow 75%
Climb 85% [40%]
Dodge DEX*2 (start)
Hide 60% [10%]
Jump 75% [25%]
Listen 70% [25%]
Scent decay 65%
Sneak 80% [10%]
Spot Hidden 50% [25%]
Dreamlands skills:
Dreaming: starts = to POW
Dream Lore: starts at Mythos/2
I came up with this by comparing lesser ghoul stats with newly rolled PCs using the v5.6 BRP rules, and then consulting the Pagan materials to get a feel for fleshing out the numbers, especially Agent Nancy's scenes in "The Rules of Engagement" novel:
Some other Pagan Publishing ghoul and Dreamlands mentions (because ghouls & the Dreamlands are so intertwined) include:
DEVIL'S CHILDREN (PAG1001)(oop)
p038-039: Arkham/Miskatonic U. ghoul tunnels mentioned
THE GOLDEN DAWN (PAG1004)(oop)
p058 - Oak Wood in Northern England; St. Michael's of the Wood
"…a place of unbound magic, much larger within than it appeared from without, impossible to map and inhabited by unearthly spirits."
"A great Elder Sign was ensorcelled around it."
A place where the Dreamlands' Enchanted Woods touches the waking world? Along with Kingsport? And Leng? Plus various ghoul warrens?
REALM OF SHADOWS (PAG1006)(oop)
A whole damn campaign book dealing with ghouls and ghoul cults! Yippie!
p008-009: New spells
p010-011: Ghoul info
p018-024: Cult of the Charnel God
p025 : Cultes des Goules
p112-113: Dreamlands
p124-139: Zothique (note the larger red sun; SAN loss 0/1?)
p170-173: Dreamlands temple and gates
p173 : Ceremony/Talking Skull
p184-187: rites
Any ideas re: Charnel Cult aftermath & activities in modern times?
MORTAL COILS (PAG1007)
http://www.tccorp.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=1007&Category_Code=1
pg46-48: Ghoul info in "A Murder of Crows"
pg71-91: Dreamlands-related scenario "Nightcap"
Do any of the artifacts mentioned in "Nightcap" still exist? A partially translated tome, giant rubies, some Moonwine…
Where did the Kentucky cult get the Gate of Oneirology spell? What happened to the "spell enabling Dreamlands items to be brought back to and exist permanently in waking world after appropriately hideous rituals"?
DELTA GREEN: COUNTDOWN (PAG1008)
http://www.tccorp.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=1008&Category_Code=1
p058-087: GRU SV-8; they don't like ghouls.
p160 : Consume Memories spell (Tiger Transit/Tcho-Tcho; possibly a humanized ghoul ritual?)
Temporarily absorb the memories & skills of whomever's fresh brains the caster consumes; expend 10MP while devouring the still-warm brains of a freshly dead corpse; caster may use any and all skills and knowledge the victim possessed for the next 24hrs; 10POW to permanently absorb (inc spells). 1d10 SAN for either version.
I'm still working on a Nemesis conversion of the BRP ghoul conversion above, but this is what I have so far:
ghoul transformation
+2d: Body
+1d: Coordination
+1d/2d: Sense
unchan: Mind
-1d/2d: Command
+0d/1d: Empathy
+1d to Equilibrium *after* MM hits?
MM hits
Unna: 6-7? become ghoul, consume memories & appearances (5=see Deep One, 6=see Serp, 7=see ET)
Help: 7-9? become ghoul (7=waiting on death row, 8=herded to death, 9=confirming Mythos)
Self: 5-6? hiding truth from gen pub (3=steal from family, 5=defraud everyone you know)
Viol: 5? eating corpses (4=see mutilated corpse, 6=attacked by undead)
+1d/2d to mythos
Agent Donald:
Mechanics-wise I think your rules are spot-on, but what I'm interested in are descriptions of the progress of becoming a ghoul.
Say a PC has read Cultes des Goules or the Ghoul Manuscript, what happens next?
I guess it starts with the PC having nightmares where he is eating human meat. After a while he will get this craving in the real world. The PC will start seeing other humans as food.
After his first consumption of human meat, his skin will slowly turn to a greyish, white color like an old corpse. The PC will notice that he becomes stronger and that he can see better in the dark. This will give him a rush of superiority and he will want to become "better". As he eats more and more 'white pig' he will become faster and stronger, he will start to smell like a dead body and he will be able to see in pitch black. He will know that he is vastly superior to human beings and he will only see them as food.
All this time he is having nightmares that teaches him more and more about the ghouls, their habitat and how they live. The PC will notice that in the evenings homeless people follow him or crowd around his place of residence.
In the mean time, friends and relatives will have left him, he will be unemployed and more and more is he attracted to solitary spots like cemetaries and sewer tunnels.
Than one evening, he will hear a knock at the door. On his doorstep stands a ghoul dressed in rags who tells the PC that he must follow him as "They" are coming to arrest him. The neighbours have complained about the smell coming from his house. The PC knew that it was a matter of time until the bodies in his house and cellar would be noticed.
If he decides to follow the ghoul he will be accepted in their ranks. If he refuses than in a couple of minutes police cars arrive and the cannibal-PC will be frontpage news for a couple of weeks.
Something like this, or will it be different?
Russell Rayburn:
I guess this raises the question… do ghouls eat corpses because that's their preferred diet, or because they worship Mordiggian?
Obviously, the Heretics prove that ghouls can eat the freshly dead… but would ghouls prefer older corpses?
Now I'm thinking of "ghoul cooking"… areas containing differing humidity, perhaps cultivated fungus, designed to forces corpses to putrify at varrying rates, in different ways. Some ghouls prefer something akin to beef jerky, others prefer something wetter with a bloom of fungal rot…
Marshall Gatten:
Of course, anybody who wants the stuff could easily just stop in at their local [[Tcho-Tcho]] grocery store.
Now there's a thought that just occurred to me: What with their cannibalistic palettes, I would expect the Tcho Tcho to be more susceptible to ghoulishness than pretty much any other group of humans. Perhaps there is a growing subculture of Tcho Tcho within the ghoul community. Sure they still worship Mordiggian, but they would also be slowly building a bastion of Tcho Tcho culture. Whole ghoul warrens made up entirely of ex-Tcho Tcho might already exist.
So what happens when they have numbers large enough to overwhelm the rest of the ghouls? This means there's a civil war brewing in the ghoul nation. What happens when it really breaks out? I imagine both sides would resort to some interesting "recruiting" practices among the humans. Disappearances would be on a sharp rise and none of us waterbags would have any idea why.
Russell Rayburn:
I envision Tcho-Tcho cuisine to involve various herbs, mushrooms, et. al. from the Tcho-Tcho's home country.. which IIRC, varies between different Tcho-Tcho "tribes".
YMMV, of course, but I wouldn't expect the Tcho-Tcho to use anything but the freshest of body parts, while I'd expect ghouls to nosh on well-decayed corpses ( Heretics aside, of course ).
John Nyx:
That's an interesting idea. I had always assumed ghouls were to humans as Men from Leng were to Tcho-Tcho, and that the Tcho-Tcho were a close but separate species from homo sapiens sapiens & incapable of ghoulism.
(Aside - With easy access to & from the Dreamlands by ghouls & Men from Leng/Tcho-Tcho, one would think that there would be some interesting implications for importing/exporting items.)
Perhaps the ghoul "race" is no more unified than the human "race". We already know of the distinctions between lesser and greater ghouls. Maybe there are others.
PS - FWIW, I don't see ghouls as breeding & reproducing. Bringing new life into the world seems at odds with disease, death, decay and consumption. Lesser ghouls live a *long* time and greater ghouls are essentially immortal, so I see new ghouls as coming from the occasional transformed (and/or recruited) human. To (ab)use a rebirth metaphor, I can also see ghouls as viewing themselves as rare humans who pupate and are transformed from a primitive larval state into a beautiful and superior final form.
Bill Waters:
I've thought about this, too, because there's also that cannibal tribe in Africa that Galt studied with that uses cannibalism to make themselves immortal, but don't become ghouls. Are there only certain people that are susceptible to the transformation to ghouls? Are certain groups somehow immune? May the [[Tcho-Tcho]] and the Africa group lack this "ghoul gene," and can eat human flesh without tranforming. At least transforming into ghouls, that is. I imagine that Deep Ones would also lack that gene, since they have thier own future.
Another theory I had was that the primitves were right — somehow eating human flesh DOES give a man power, in the magical sense. They can take qualities from the flesh they are eating, and it does change their bodies.
The thing is, most of the people who eat flesh cannot harness this energy. It become this wild, unstable addition to them, without any real effect. Maybe it gives them a kind of rush, like snorting ghosts does in Tim Power's books. It's a way of tapping into someone else's soul.
Unharnessed, controlled, it will eventually transform a person into a ghoul. How? There are many possibilities. You could say perhaps that ghouldom is our natural state, or the logical end of our evolution, and the extra power just sort of lets our bodies jump a few evolutionary levels. Or maybe it was a previous state in our evolution, and the ghouls are backtracking.
Perhaps ghouls are actually Dreamland entities that have figured out how to take over people in the waking land, and they can only locate and access people with this excess power. Perhaps that would explain how a book could transform a person who has never eaten raw flesh — the reader gets a static charge of this energy that the possessing creature can 'smell.' Ghouldom is actually a sort of physical possession by a creature that doesn't need your personality, so that doesn't change, and only wants your body. Kind of like a bad date at a pick-up bar, right? It's physical possession without the spiritual or mental possession.
The Africans and the Tcho-Tcho both know about this energy, but are able to harness it through rituals. The Africans obviously have created a ritual, the one that gives them long life, and that seems to be the only one. The Tcho-Tcho, on the other hand, do not seem to be immortal, which I think makes them the only cannibalistic being in the Mythos that is not. Maybe they have harnessed the energy in a different way. Maybe it helps them hunt. Maybe it gives them magic. Maybe the Tcho-Tcho are more powerful than we actually assumed, only no one has reported it.
If this is true, then there is one other cannibalistic entity that might have followed a path similar to the Tcho-Tcho: vampires. I know they're not exactly canon, but this could finally give a rational explanation for a vampire-like being to appear in the Mythos. They feed on humans, are immortal and have a wide variety of magical powers. Maybe vampires are humans who can draw on both the African and Tcho-Tcho traditions, and can tranform this energy into longevity and power. Or maybe they are a third, European tradition of cannibalism that would have grown out of the ghoul cults. Some of the ghoul cultists thought that the ghoul transformation was not the ideal that they thought it should be, and figured out what actually happened. Then they figured out rituals, which let them become the Dracula rip-offs we know and love.
Mattias Hunger:
I thought about the possiblitiy of immortality as ritually-contolled "ghoulization", too, but discounted it: 1. It can't be a genetic immunity - "Israel Bishop" from "The Picture in the House" uses Feast of Life, too, and is neither Anzique nor Tcho-Tcho, and does not become ghoulish. 2. It would make all cases of non-ritual cannibalism inevitable pathways to ghouldom, thus turning all desperate airplane crash survivors, all mundane cannibalistic tribes, psychopathic cannibals like Dr. Lecter and (probably) human sorcerers using Consume Likeness into ghouls-to-be. Also, slipping someone human flesh or forcing him/her to eat human flesh would automatically trigger a transformation, which I find undesirable from a narrative point of view. Presumably, cannibalism is a necessary, but not sufficient condition of transformation into a ghoul; other factors like a canine mindset, love of death and decay, association with ghouls, ghoulish behaviour are also important (given the example of Pickman, it might also be argued that cannibalism is secondary, not even necessary - it does not seem central to Pickman's transformation). The Ghoul Manuscript could simulate these other conditions rather than cannibalism - magically condensing knowledge about ghouls into the equivalent of living with them, with cannibalistic urges as natural/logical effect (and only final step).
As an aside: given that they have century-old ghouls and powerful sorcerers in their ranks, why don't the Manhattan ghouls/Keepers of the Faith have a gateway to the Dreamlands, solving all their norishment problems? One could think that Alzis could have provided them with one, too, but no. (Obviously, that would more or less eliminate their narrative function, but still - from an in-world point of view?)
Thug Whisperer:
If I am not mistaken, it is not the consumption of human flesh that triggers the transformation, it is the consumption of rotting human flesh. To become a ghoul, you have to have first eaten like a ghoul. A long time ago (it should be in the archives) there was a discussion regarding this issue and the possibility that ghoulishness might be a prion disorder, the prion being one that only manifests in rotting human flesh.
Mark McFadden:
And let's not forget the wendigo. 'Ravenous' made great use of the concept.
Bill Waters:
I thought about the possiblitiy of immortality as ritually- contolled "ghoulization", too, but discounted it: 1. It can't be a genetic immunity - "Israel Bishop" from "The Picture in the House" uses Feast of Life, too, and is neither Anzique nor Tcho-Tcho, and does not become ghoulish.
First, genetic immunity and getting energy from cannibalism are two different concepts. Israel Bishop would be using a ritual to control the energy that he gets from the cannibalism in the Feast of Life.
2. It would make all cases of non-ritual cannibalism inevitable pathways to ghouldom,
You mean it's not?
thus turning all desperate airplane crash survivors, all mundane cannibalistic tribes, psychopathic cannibals like Dr. Lecter and (probably) human sorcerers using Consume Likeness into ghouls-to-be. Also, slipping someone human flesh or forcing him/her to eat human flesh would automatically trigger a transformation, which I find undesirable from a narrative point of view.
First, it doesn't seem to be the first eating of dead flesh that launches the transformation. It's a sustained pattern of it over a long series of time. That would leave out most of the desperate crash survivors and casual cannibals.
Also, it's possible that there are different rates of transformation for different types of people, and it may depend on the freshness of the meat. As someone pointed out, eating rotting flesh seems to be the benchmark of ghouls. Maybe the casual cannibals would become ghouls if they showed a bit of dedication to the cause.
Second, the sorcerers are also using a ritual attached to eating the flesh, and this probably would lead to the transformation of the energy that I was talking about.
That leaves the psychopaths and the traditionalists. Let me talk about the psychopaths first.
It's actually kind of surprising that there aren't more psychopathic ghouls. One of the reasons that we don't associate the two is that there is a lot of non-Mythos literature based on psychos. We are influenced by the mythology of pop culture rather than trying to make rules for our own world. What if serial cannibalism is one of the main vectors for ghouldom? Well, then a serial killer who is a cannibal might be, in Mythos terms, a ghoul in training. He lusts after the kill, and took the next step in eating flesh. With each kill, though, he waits a little bit longer before sinking his teeth in. Each time, he eats a little bit more, and wants more still. Each time, he grows a little stronger.
It would make for a nice investigation, wouldn't it?
As for the tribes…this is not something that I've done research on. However, at least some of the tribes that have performed cannibalism have done it in a ritualized setting. In Lovecraft's world, some of the primitive magic can actually work, even if it's not quite as advertised.
Also, I mentioned the idea of physical possession, that ghouls are actually Dreamland entities that take over the body of a cannibal. It's possible that they do not take over all the cannibals in the world. Maybe there aren't enough ghouls in the Dreamlands to possess all the people who eat flesh, or the primitives are "too far away" in the Dreamlands — they have an entry point far from the ghoul-lands.
Or maybe they turn into ghouls, too. Maybe there are groups of cannibals who do not use rituals that never die natural deaths. All the other groups use some sort of purifying ritual, that are enough to hold off the transformation. Or maybe it would be more proper to say that they hold off the possession. Maybe the primitves are full of this ambient, wild energy, but they have performed enough rituals to avoid possession by these ghoul-spirits. They can't do anything with the energy in most cases, but at least they don't suffer the harm.
This is interesting because it would make ghouls a threat in an athiest age. It's the primitives who know how to placate the spirits that are protected, while those who indulge without the protection are liable to being possessed.
When trying to define a set of rules, it is difficult to make everything work perfectly. There are some things that don't have to fit, like Hannibal, because they weren't true in the real world. Some things, like the primitive tribes, can remain fuzzy, because they usually don't directly impact play, and there can be other factors that can come into play.
Presumably, cannibalism is a necessary, but not sufficient condition of transformation into a ghoul; other factors like a canine mindset, love of death and decay, association with ghouls, ghoulish behaviour are also important (given the example of Pickman, it might also be argued that cannibalism is secondary, not even necessary - it does not seem central to Pickman's transformation). The Ghoul Manuscript could simulate these other conditions rather than cannibalism - magically condensing knowledge about ghouls into the equivalent of living with them, with cannibalistic urges as natural/logical effect (and only final step).
This sort of thing is the main reason why I don't think cannibalism is the key issue. It's been proven that there are ways of achieving ghouldom other than just eating man. However, there has to be a reason that eating human flesh seems to be the main route to becoming a ghoul.
To sum up:
1. Eating dead human flesh will give a human being a certain amount of wild, untamed power.
2. In its wild, untamed state, this power attract ghoul-spirits (ghouls who do not have physical bodies), which will slowly possess an individual who continues to consume flesh. If the individual stops, then the ghoul-spirit goes away without possessing him.
3. The wild energy can be tranformed by people who use magic. Usually the magic has to be associated with death in some way, and is often performed while eating the corpse. Feast of Life and Consume Likeness are prime examples. The Tcho-Tcho may have discovered others.
4. Primitive tribes have certain cleasing rituals that block the ghoul-spirits from taking them over. That way, they can have great amounts of this wild energy but never transform into a ghoul.
5. Some people can become open to possession by ghoul-spirits even if they have never eaten human flesh. The Ghoul Manuscript is one example of this. Perhaps it's enough to hang out with ghouls, like Pickman did. In his case, though, I would be surprised if he didn't share in a feast or two before he transformed.
Ghoul-spirits are simply ghouls that exist in the Dreamlands but not in the real world. They might seem a bit more animalistic if they are encountered, but physically not much different. They cannot travel between the two worlds, which is why they want to possess bodies. It's their ticket to the big feast.
That's an interesting idea. I had always assumed ghouls were to humans as Men from Leng were to Tcho-Tcho, and that the Tcho-Tcho were a close but separate species from homo sapiens sapiens & incapable of ghoulism.
(Aside - With easy access to & from the Dreamlands by ghouls & Men from Leng/Tcho-Tcho, one would think that there would be some interesting implications for importing/exporting items.)
I've always wondered about rivalry. I mean, they're basically after the same prey. It could be that the two groups are defined by territory — ghouls in the West and Tcho-Tcho in the East. Until modern times, they haven't had to deal with each other. Now, though, their hunting paths may cross. Gang War from Hell.
Now if this Gang War spilled over into the Dreamlands, it would make an interesting way to tie it into the DG world. I know that some people have problems making them fit together, but this would combine motifs of werewolf vs. vampire, and shaolin ninja movies, plus put the investigators in a place where they cannot use their guns. What Keeper wouldn't be tempted by that?
PS - FWIW, I don't see ghouls as breeding & reproducing. Bringing new life into the world seems at odds with disease, death, decay and consumption. Lesser ghouls live a *long* time and greater ghouls are essentially immortal, so I see new ghouls as coming from the occasional transformed (and/or recruited) human. To (ab)use a rebirth metaphor, I can also see ghouls as viewing themselves as rare humans who pupate and are transformed from a primitive larval state into a beautiful and superior final form.
Except of course that ghoul babies are mentioned in Pickman's Model. Ghouls will sometimes steal human babies and replace them with their own for the humans to raise. They were called changelings.
Then again, that taps into the idea of fairies. If you buy my idea of ghoul-spirits, you might begin to wonder what they looked like. Maybe they need human bodies to achieve the full ghoul state, too. Maybe the ghoul-spirits can be tied into the legends of the Seelie and Unseelie Courts. Little people who live mostly in another world that moves at a different speed than ours, who have lots of magic and are quite dangerous to deal with — sounds like the Dreamlands, doesn't it? It could be an area worth researching.
Dave Farnell:
2. In its wild, untamed state, this power attract ghoul-spirits (ghouls who do not have physical bodies), which will slowly possess an individual who continues to consume flesh.
I like this. It also explains the Wendigo—which are just another type of Ghoul spirit, one that worships and/or has been enslaved by Ithaqua.
4. Primitive tribes have certain cleasing rituals that block the ghoul-spirits from taking them over. That way, they can have great amounts of this wild energy but never transform into a ghoul.
Or, in the case of the Tcho-tcho, they've already got Dreamlands forms (the Men from Leng) that would take it unkindly if a Ghoul spirit tried to take over their real-world body. A wise Ghoul spirit would stay away. No sense starting an interspecies war in the Dreamlands.
A. Scott Glancy:
Am I the only one who has noted that the kind of cannibalism that the ghouls practice differs from the Tcho-tchos, the Anziques and sorcerers in one very important way. Ghouls don't cook their meat. It's raw, fresh from the grave and… no so fresh. Raw and decomposing, that's the meat that ghouls consume. Maybe that's the reason that so few cannibals turn into ghouls? How many cannibals go for gamey human sushi?
Even Serpent Men sorcerers performing the consume likeness spell are not waiting around for their victim to decay before swallowing them whole.
Dave Farnell:
I've always wondered about rivalry. I mean, they're basically after the same prey. It could be that the two groups are defined by territory — ghouls in the West and Tcho-Tcho in the East. Until modern times, they haven't had to deal with each other. Now, though, their hunting paths may cross. Gang War from Hell.
I wonder—'ghul' is Arabic, and I seem to remember ghoul tales being set in Northern India, so I would imagine they've at least brushed up against each other before. Maybe they had a huge war a few centuries ago, and they're still smarting from that. And now it's looking like they're going to have to have another one.
Factions. Just think of the factions forming, and splintering, as the Ghouls and the Tcho-tcho prepare for the coming bloodbath. The appeasement faction, the extinction faction, the Mordiggian fanatics, the ones who want to use humans as proxies and keep the fighting indirect…
Am I the only one who has noted that the kind of cannibalism that the ghouls practice differs from the Tcho-tchos, the Anziques and sorcerers in one very important way. Ghouls don't cook their meat.
That's been mentioned in this thread. And it's a good point, but doesn't preclude a Tcho-tcho/Ghoul rivalry. After all, if the Tcho-tchos eat all the bodies before they can decay, the Ghouls go hungry. Ghouls don't much like regular cannibals, or people who cremate their dead, for that matter.
On the other hand, I have to admit after some consideration that Ghouls are considerably less aggressive than Tcho-tchos. Their tendency usually seems to be to avoid conflict, unless it's truly necessary, and then they attack with overwhelming ferocity. In most cases, they'd rather go hungry or relocate rather than fight. At least until they are able to rule nations, in the age of Zothique.
Adam Scott Glancy:
Can you imagine how upset the ghouls were when they found out that the Final Solution to the Jewish Question was going to involve crematoriums and not mass graves? That paper-hanging-son-of-a-bitch just ruined everything.
Dave Farnell:
[grin] Still, there were plenty of bodies left on the battlefields. And amputated limbs, and all that. So I don't think they were behind any of the assassination attempts.
Matthew MacNeil:
My view of ghoul activites during the war was that at the beginning they mainly aided the Allies from behind the scenes. Not due to any moral, political, or social objections to the Nazis but simply due to the fact that the Allies were the underdogs at first and by helping them they prolonged the fighting. A collapsed tunnel system here, a few unexplained murders there, and the bloodshed lasts longer and more bodies get lost in the muck. Once things are a bit more equal they just sabotage both sides whenever it will help keep the war going without putting themselves at any major risk.
Bill Waters:
I wonder—'ghul' is Arabic, and I seem to remember ghoul tales being set in Northern India, so I would imagine they've at least brushed up against each other before. Maybe they had a huge war a few centuries ago, and they're still smarting from that. And now it's looking like they're going to have to have another one.
It could be, but this is one time when I don't think having a history of fighting would affect anything. I think it would be more interesting to have them discover these rivals and think they're easy prey, only to find out that they have almost the same powers. As a matter of fact, I have a hard time believing that either side would stop fighting once they started.