Gun Digest Volume 1 (archive)
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Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:29:01 +0000
From: Matthew Pook

I'm new to the list, but Delta Green has to be one of the best supplements in a very long time, really reworking how CoC is played and it is one of the few RPG supplements I have read completely.

One or two problems though:

3. Why is no information given as to the particular weapons that each agency uses? Primarily I was thinking of the FBI, which I think uses a S&W 1006 9mm (correct me if I'm wrong, but the X-Files was hauled up on this by the FBI) and also this weapon was missing from the guns list at the back.

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 12:11:06 -0400
From: Duran Goodyear

To my limited knowledge. FBI agents are issued Beretta 92f 9mm pistols. The same as the US Army uses…

That's the standard. But I believe that they are allowed to purchase their own weapons.

That is just conjecture. I don't know the exact procedures etc…

But from watching TV (not just fiction, but documentaries, and news accounts… I have seen many a different gun in the holster or hand of the FBI

I do know one regulation. They have to be Automatics. Their was a gun fight in the 80's between a few FBI agents, and a few drug dealers. The Drug Dealers had automatics, and the FBI had Revolvers… I think 3 Agents died in that gun fight.

That's from memory, and may be skewed…

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 15:43:55 UT
From: "John Gallant"

3. Why is no information given as to the particular weapons that each agency uses? Primarily I was thinking of the FBI, which I think uses a S&W 1006 9mm (correct me if I'm wrong, but the X-Files was hauled up on this by the FBI) and also this weapon was missing from the guns list at the back.

When was this? In the X-files they use SIGs. Once upon a time they used Glocks. At one time they also used the S&Ws. I believe standard weapons within agencies changes with armourers, contracts, and administration. If they had been listed in DG, much of it would now be incorrect, IMHO. Just ask around for specific agencies. When that doesn't work, assign a new armourer to an agencies and change the sidearm to one of your choosing. One thing to note, with the military, the M92 is always a safe bet (except for special forces-types).

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 98 17:44:29 UT
From: "John Gallant"

Agent Dyson might have said:

To my limited knowledge. FBI agents are issued Beretta 92f 9mm pistols. The same as the US Army uses.

It is what the Army uses, but the Army doesn't have to carry concealed. Has anyone here handled an M9? They're chunks. It's the '59 Cadillac of combat handguns. The SIG-Sauer P228/9 or the Glock 19 would be preferable. There's also the new Beretta Cougar, which is more compact than it's brother. Another good one for those who want to buy American is the Sturm Ruger P95.

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 14:29:45 -0500 (CDT)
From: Don Juneau

The data changes often enough, but the last I'd heard for the FBI it was double-action 9mm at a minimum. 10mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP pop up as well - - I saw an article (admittedly over a year back) that the Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) had changed over to Para-Ordinance high-capacity .45 autos - P.12.45, or was it the P.14.45? (Single-action, though, but they're a special case.)

The 10mm was developed primarily as a law-enforcement round (the impression I've gotten from somewhere), but I've heard it was a bit *too* powerful and hard-to-handle, and thus it didn't stay the standard.

Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:24:34 EDT
From: Croaker Jr

I had a friend in the NYC FBI field office a few years back. At that time (1995) he said standard issue (not including HRT) included the Sig 9mm and the 10mm Colt. He carried a Sig 9mm because of the small frame, and he said a lot of agents preferred it for that reason—it's just more comfortable to handle and wear, especially for agents with smaller builds. He knew several agents who still carried the 10mm; he said it was often called a "hip dragger" because of its weight. (Keepers, make sure you play up the fact that your players might not be in top comfort and alertness wearing kevlar undershirts and lugging Desert Eagles around under their coats in the summer sun-some skill penalties might be in order for those who refuse to roleplay it well!)

The 10mm was issued as the official FBI service pistol back around 1991 (this was the fancy new handgun Agent Cooper received in Twin Peaks), but it was withdrawn from service after a very short time. If I recall correctly, it was manufactured with a design flaw that made it prone to jamming or difficult to repair or something, and the cost of repairing the flaw was prohibitive. The FBI attempted to get out of their contract with Colt, which brought on a big legal battle. In the end the FBI was stuck with a large number of the pistols, all issued for agents' use after the pricey repairs, but switched to the Sig as the standard weapon. Agents after that could opt to carry the Colt or the Sig. I haven't heard whether that practice is still in effect in 1998.

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:54:35 -0400
From: Ngo Vinh-Hoi

As of 1998, all agents graduating from the FBI academy are issued Glock 22 or 23s. They are both in calibre .40 Smith & Wesson, giving them the same power as the 10MM short round that was specially devised for the Feebs when they were still playing around with the Smith & Wesson 1076. The Glock 22 is a full sized service pistol, holding 15+1 rounds, whilst the Glock 23 is midsize/compact holding 13+1 rounds. The individual agent is allowed to pick between the two. Incidentally, the G23 will accept the G22 magazines, although the reverse is obviously not the case. There's also a G27 subcompact(holding 9+1) which will accept mags for the G22 & G23, although there's no word on whether those are authorised for backup carry. In fact, as of a few years ago, FBI agents weren't allowed to carry backup weapons unless given special permission by their SAC, but that policy may have since been repealed. Also, there's no word on if agents already in service will have to transition to the Glocks or if they can hang on to their current firearms.

Prior to this switch to Glock, most FBI agents carried SIG 226/228s or the S&W 1076. Back in the mid '80s some of the older agents were still carrying Smith & Wesson Model 13 revolvers, which were .357 Magnums—they were restricted to hot .38 Special ammo, however, unless they were given special dispensation by their SACs.

Other weapons available to field agents include a semi-auto only version of the Heckler & Koch MP5 9MM sub-machinegun (unclear if they're going to switch to the .40 S&W version for commonality of ammo) & a somewhat modified Remington 870 pump-action shotgun (check out the Scattergun Technologies website at, where they list an FBI model, although who knows if it's official issue).

Editors Note: the SP-89 is the semi-auto version of the MP5

The FBI regional SWAT teams usually carry full auto MP5s and customised Colt 1911s (with 8 round mags). Their sniper rifles are civilian variants of the USMC M40A1 in .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO (itself a militarised Remington 700 varmint rifle). Unlike agents assigned to the Hostage Rescue Team, agents on the regional SWAT teams still have investigative duties and don't train full time.

As for the HRT, they are issued full auto MP5/10s which use full power 10MM ammo. The standard sidearm is a highly customised Para-Ordnance P14, which is essentially a Colt 1911 with a modified frame for high capacity mags (in this case, 14+1). Being the creme de la creme (except 4 two little incidents called Waco & Ruby Ridge;), I'm sure that whatever they want, they can get.

Other agencies get far less press than those glory hounds at the FBI, but what I know of I'll pass on as follows:

DEA: The Sig 228 is the most commonly issued sidearm, although a number of others are authorised. The last thing an undercover agent wants is to be stereotyped by his sidearm! Weapons commonly used on raid teams include customised Remington 870 shotguns and short-barrelled M16/AR15s. Anyway, you might want to ask Frank Pine, since he probably deals with the DEA on a regular basis.

Customs: No info on their sidearm, but they have Steyr AUGs in their inventory (possibly semi-auto only).

INS/Border Patrol: Beretta 96D Brigadier (essentially a beefed-up double-action only Beretta 92) in .40 S&W with a capacity of 11+1. Also a customised Remington 870 shotgun (see the Scattergun Technologies website).

Older Border Patrol officers may still carry the Smith & Wesson Model 19 .357 Magnum revolver. Incidentally, the Border Patrol is the single most dangerous job in Federal law enforcement, with the possible exception of the DEA.

United States Postal Inspectors: Most seem to carry Smith & Wesson 686 revolvers in .357 Magnum although they may have switched to the Beretta 92.

Secret Service: Sig 228s are common as are snubnosed Smith & Wesson Model 19s (loaded with the hot "Treasury Load" .38 Special, not Magnums). Uzi submachineguns are common, since they're more concealable than the H&K MP5, although this may change with the advent of the compact H&K MP5 PDW. Again, like the FBI anything they want, they can probably get.

National Park Service Police: They carry the Rolls-Royce of semi-auto handguns, the Heckler & Koch P7M13 9MM with a 13+1 capacity. I believe that officers with small hands are allowed to carry the more compact P7M8 (8+1 cap), but have to carry 4 spare mags instead of only 2.

BATF: Sig 228s are also popular here, as well as H&K MP5s for raids.

US Marshals: I'm not sure what they carry on a day to day basis, but Smith & Wesson revolvers in .357 Magnum and S&W autos in .45 ACP are commonly used by the Special Operations Group(SOG). Other brands are authorised for backup carry, and the most common shoulder arm for the SOG is the Colt 9MM submachinegun version of the M16. The Marshals are also famous for their "Witness Protection" version of the Remington 870 shotgun, which has a pistol grip stock and a 12" barrel (I think the capacity is reduced to 3+1)—don't fire this one with rifled slugs unless you're ready to try dentures!

EPA Criminal Investigation Division (CID): Yes, the EPA does have its own special agents and doesn't have to rely exclusively on other agencies! The issue sidearm is the compact Glock 19 in 9MM (15+1 cap). The ubiquitous Remington 870 shotgun is the longarm of choice.

Most of these weapons are listed in the back of Delta Green, but any that aren't should be pretty easy to extrapolate. Incidentally, I have some disagreements with some of the COC guns stats, but that's for another day.

Any questions, comments, corrections are welcome, since I am in no way a firearms expert, having only shot ~150 rounds through a Colt 1911. Just call me Mr. Trivia:)

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:09:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Don Juneau

Hmm. The last info I had gotten (3rd Edition GUN DIGEST BOOK OF ASSAULT WEAPONS) implied that the MP5/10 was prototyped, but not accepted at the time. <shrug> Although it certainly looked like on in the Reinhard Galt illo in DG…

Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 16:30:49 -0400
From: Ngo Vinh-Hoi

What you're referring to is the infamous 1986 "Miami Massacre", which was made into the first "In the Line of Duty" TV movie. A lot of debate has come up about that gunfight as to tactics, adequacy of weaponry, etc. The FBI has even recreated the entire gunfight as a training film. At one point the resolution of the entire incident was blamed on the ballistics of one single bullet fired early on by one of the FBI agents. This led to the push to arm FBI agents with the 10mm Smith & Wesson 1076but in retrospect the problem appears to have been a tactical one, rather than an equipment failure. In fact, the gunfight was ended by revolver shooting Special Agent Edmundo Mireles. There's been numerous write-ups of the "Miami Massacre" in gun mags and forensics journals as wellperhaps someone on the list knows where we can get a hold of some of them?

Actually, back in the late '60s (early '70s?), the british were still using .380 Walther PPKs as the primary arm for Royal bodyguards; there was a kidnap attempt against Princess (I forget the name) and her hubby, IIRC a Major in the Marines. Kidnapper and bodyguards (driver?) all were using PPKs, and *all* of them jammed - only a few shots were fired, and the PPK was deemed "unsuitable" after that point.

My own preference for backup changes depending on what I'm doing, what finances I'd have available <G>, and the time in question. .22LR is about the minimum, with one of those frangible-load .25s coming in slightly higher. (If I *trust* it, of course.) I'd take a .380 over a .32 auto, though.

Now, until fairly recently, the backup guns tended to be .380 or below, with the occasional oddball like the COP 4-shot .357; now, however, you can pick up all sorts of 9mm, .45, and .40 autos in incredibly small packages. (I personally like the Para-Ordnance .45s - P.12.45, or mebbe the P.10.45; I understand there are .40 conversion kits for 'em as well. The large muzzle is sure to give all but the SAN-challenged second thoughts, especially on something roughly the size of two MYTHOS decks. <G>)

Of course, there have always been the snub-nosed revolvers, but the cylinder (even on 5-shot models) is always the sticking-point; I've seen .44 Magnum Smith & Wesson Model 29s cut down to 2 inch barrels, but my masochism only extends so far. <G> For a revolver, I'd probably take a .357 Magnum, 5 shot - although the .44 Special is also nice. (Charter Arms Bulldog - get that Son of Sam rep started. <G>)

I will note that a helluva lot of people *are* killed with the good ol' .22 Long Rifle round each year… one magazine I have suggests using a good (not the $50 cheapo) .22LR or .25 auto as a "close quarters" weapon, aiming for the eye-sockets and rapidly firing. (Practise with ballons and paper plates.) I'd rather use the technique with a .45, but then I'm of the "if it's worth doing, it's worth 255 grain" school. <EG>

Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:17:13 EDT
From: moc.loa|9lhD#moc.loa|9lhD

Now, until fairly recently, the backup guns tended to be .380 or below, with the occasional oddball like the COP 4-shot .357;

Ever hear of the Semmerling LM-4? It is a .45 ACP, 4 or 6 shot and fits in the palm of your hand. I like any .45 but statistics show that anything under a 5 inch barrel and hollow points have a hard time opening up thus reducing their effectiveness.

I heard the C.O.P. .357 was no better than the average derringer accuracy wise.

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