The DGML began speculating about Canada long before M-EPIC.
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Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 19:48:00 -0500
From: Joe Kilmartin
A few questions:
2) Are there any other Canadian DG operatives scouting for connections and story ideas that have more to do with anything besides Ithaqua? (More than Windigos and Gknopf-Keh don'tchaknow). Toronto and Vancouver are known for their white-supremicists and Satanists, respectively. There is strong *strong* evidence purporting that AVRO made a variety of UFOs for the US Millitary in the 1950s-60s and that AVRO employees moved to New Mexico to help the US Air Force design team with whatever they were working on after that. We also have a large Maritime population… "des Profondants Acadieines hybridisee' " anyone? besides, ol HP *adored* Quebec.
3) Has anyone else been musing about the RCMP's or Canadian Security Information Service? (RCMP are old-school cops with nifty police powers. Perfectly Old-School, "Shoot it before it eats me!", types .. MJ12 and DG neutral or more sinister? CSIS is nifty-new… smelling of DG idealism but have a nasty habit of telling the Government EVERYTHING before they can get a search warrent.
4) Anyone else read a mess of Michal Slade and want to bash together some Canuck Mythos-resistance crossed with Millenium-styled serial killer fun?
Any interested parties are invited to comment privately or here.
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 21:29:08 -0500 (EST)
From: John Petherick
2) Are there any other Canadian DG operatives scouting for connections and story ideas that have more to do with anything besides Ithaqua?
Actually, it's western Canada that's known for it's white supremacists, most of whom have ties to the Aryan Brotherhood in the US. Although the National Socialist Party of Canada was strongest in Ontario (I went to high school with the sons of the leader of this group). And it's Victoria that's particularly known for satanism.
The main DG book indicates that MJ-12 is active within Canada (retrieval missions in the Yukon). Other possibilities are:
- worship of Azathoth, Cthugha, Hastur or whoever tells the Order of the Solar Temple to kill themselves. The Order of the Solar Temple had infiltrated Hydro Quebec, and had many followers among mid- and high-level managers, by posing as a personal development group. This group has had several coordinated mass suicides / murders among its followers in Quebec, France and Switzerland.
- Mi-Go activity in the Nahanni, or other remote parts of the North where strange disappearances have happened
- cultists posing as a rock and roll band from the suburbs of Vancouver, who sell their recording through the same disinformation network as DG material
- Dr. Gerald Bull, an artillery expert who was involved in the development of a space gun to shoot satellites into orbit, fell afoul of the US and Canadian governments, and then sold his talents to the highest bidder. Notably, Israel and South Africa used his services. He was involved in a "super-gun" (capable of throwing massive shells incredible distances) project with Iraq just before the Gulf War, when he was assassinated. The identity of his killer(s) and the sponsor are still not known.
- Cthulhu cults and hybrids are descibed by HPL among the Inuit (Eskimo) and should be considered in Newfoundland and coastal tribes on the West Coast
- the radical Douhkobour (sp?) sects in BC who displayed their detachment from the material world by acts of arson and bombings.
3) Has anyone else been musing about the RCMP's or Canadian Security Information Service? (RCMP are old-school cops with nifty police powers. Perfectly Old-School, "Shoot it before it eats me!", types .. MJ12 and DG neutral or more sinister? CSIS is nifty-new… smelling of DG idealism but have a nasty habit of telling the Government EVERYTHING before they can get a search warrent.
My personal take is that a parallel, "little brother" organization has grown up alongside DG and MJ-12.
In most cases, members of the Canadian military, police or security services would be assigned to liase with MJ-12 activities within Canada. In most cases, these people would believe that they are working with CIA, NSA, US military, etc. teams and have no knowledge of the Mythos. A smaller number realize that they are on the edges of a shadowy organization / conspiracy which reaches throughout the US government, and may have Mythos knowledge. An even smaller number, perhaps one or two people, knows about MJ-12 and is actually part of the conspiracy. In return for some of the benefits that MJ-12 leaders enjoy (insider trading tips, hints of immortality, etc.) these conspirators arrange for Canadian liasion personnel, plus other assistance that can be provided by Canada (cover or identities for operations in nations unfriendly to the US). In other words, almost all Canadian operatives are pawns manipulated by MJ-12 and their contacts within the Canadian government - very much the way that friendlies are used by DG.
A small group of people, mainly from the RCMP, have more Mythos knowledge. I see this starting from investigation (aka suppression) of Ithaqua and Cthulhu cults among native peoples in the 40's and 50's. More knowledge would be gained by investigation of disappearances, criminal activities and other leads into the Mythos. One, or more, member of this group knows about both MJ-12 and DG and realizes the difference between them. This individual, possibly a personal friend of Alphonse from his OSS days, has given Cell A of DG the methods of contact between MJ-12 and the Canadian government, and DG uses this. In essence, DG teams working in Canada (or under Canadian cover overseas) are teamed with people who, if they even realize that they arn't working with a legitimate US government team, believe that they're working for MJ-12. (For the life of me, I can't remember the name of this tactic by intelligence agencies).
In short, there would be only one or two people who are fully cognizant of DG and MJ-12, and can distinguish between them. More people would have worked for one, the other, or both and think that it was a legitimate operation.
From: "David Farnell" <pj.en.tta.awi|fad#pj.en.tta.awi|fad>
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:01:59 +0900
Could one of y'all post some info about the famous Satanists in major Canadian cities? My players are soon to make a trip up to Toronto in "At Your Door" (heavily modified for DG), and it may provide an interesting diversion/plot hook.
Agent Petherick writes:
- Dr. Gerald Bull, an artillery expert who was involved in the development of a space gun to shoot satellites into orbit, fell afoul of the US and Canadian governments, and then sold his talents to the highest bidder. Notably, Israel and South Africa used his services. He was involved in a "super-gun" (capable of throwing massive shells incredible distances) project with Iraq just before the Gulf War, when he was assassinated. The identity of his killer(s) and the sponsor are still not known.
I heard it was Mossad, but I guess that is unconfirmed. A Canadian friend who studied under one of the AVRO guys says that Bull was connected to AVRO somehowor did I get that mixed up? And from all the History Channel documentaries I've seen, the AVRO Car never flew, just skimmed along the grounddid they ever develop something that could actually have been mistaken for a flying alien saucer?
- the radical Douhkobour (sp?) sects in BC who displayed their detachment from the material world by acts of arson and bombings.
Are these the guys who go around naked? And don't forget the violence between traditionalist and liberal Sikh factions. K at work?
My personal take is that a parallel, "little brother" organization has grown up alongside DG and MJ-12. [snip]
Excellent writeup, Agent P! Some very good ideas there.
From: "gable"
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 02:40:32 -0500
- worship of Azathoth, Cthugha, Hastur or whoever tells the Order of the Solar Temple to kill themselves. The Order of the Solar Temple had infiltrated Hydro Quebec, and had many followers among mid- and high-level managers, by posing as a personal development group. This group has had several coordinated mass suicides / murders among its followers in Quebec, France and Switzerland.
Probably this was Cthugha. As I remember, the cultists burnt themselves alive.
- Mi-Go activity in the Nahanni, or other remote parts of the North where strange disappearances have happened
Also, the Nahanni Valley ("Headless Valley") is home to a cryptozoological creature called the Waheela, supposed to be a giant whitish-gray wolf. Ivan T. Sanderson theorized it was a dire wolf. I'm sure someone could come up with DG stuff for this thing.
BTW, I noted that Machinations of the Mi-Go mentioned the Nandi Bear of Kenya as a manifestation of the Mi-Go. (Note To Pagan: the African name for this creature was not Nandi [that's the name of the tribe], it was Chemosit).
Also, since there's at least *supposed* to be several unsolved decapitations in the valley, maybe activity of a Y'golonac cult?
Serendipitously, I've written up a piece at my site on the Hand of Sedna, a cult among the Inuit, accessible at
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/arkham/80/cosedna.html
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 07:12:14 -0500 (EST)
From: John Petherick
Probably this was Cthugha. As I remember, the cultists burnt themselves alive.
Yes and no. The scenario in most of these episodes appeared to be ingestion of poison kool-aid (why exactly do death cults always use Kool-Aid ?), strangulation or asphyxiation using plastic bags. The strangulation and some of the asphyxiation deaths are usually believed to be murder or assisted suicide. The building is then burnt, and some people killed by the fire.
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 16:59:56 -0500
From: Joe Kilmartin
Actually, it's western Canada that's known for it's white supremacists, most of whom have ties to the Aryan Brotherhood in the US.
I don't know if this is actually the case as it is now.. Toronto is the main distribution point for a lot of hate literature that is printed and distributed throughout the US. This is sometrhing that is touched upon in the documentary "Blood in the Face" from a few years back
Although the National Socialist Party of Canada was strongest in Ontario
(I went to high school with the sons of the leader of this group).
Lots and lots of anti-Semitic rioting in Toronto in the 50's (ending in something known as the Massacre at Christie Pits, when legislators and Mounties had to step in to have everyone make nice again). The corner of College and Bathurst, and specificly the grungey Tex-Mex restaurant and bar called Sneaky Dees is the current hotbed for hate and anti-hate group fistfights. Both eat and entertain at the same place.. Canada is kinda odd that way.
And it's Victoria that's particularly known for satanism.
And a plethora of oddish New Age cults to boot.
The main DG book indicates that MJ-12 is active within Canada (retrieval missions in the Yukon). Other possibilities are:
— worship of Azathoth, Cthugha, Hastur or whoever tells the Order of the Solar Temple to kill themselves. The Order of the Solar Temple had infiltrated Hydro Quebec, and had many followers among mid- and high-level managers, by posing as a personal development group. This group has had several coordinated mass suicides / murders among its followers in Quebec, France and Switzerland.
Lets not forget that the Raelians are also in Montreal. Rael has Nyarlathotep writen all over him, as either a Mask or as the pleasant servitor of one.
- Mi-Go activity in the Nahanni, or other remote parts of the North where strange disappearances have happened.
Or around the Air Force bases spread throughout the country. A Convergence styled scenario where everyone is Mi-Go contrilled in a smal town in any province here is made-to-order, especially given the AVRO info I'm now researching again. (in the terrificly Area51 and Roswell confirming book called The UFO Files- I'll get an author's name and ISBN number for y'all) Also, if the MiGo are here for minerals they can't find on Yuggitrh (which they wer, for awhile anyway) the vast expanses iof mineable territory must have left their pulpy cilliated heads pulsing with glee.
- Cthulhu cults and hybrids are descibed by HPL among the Inuit (Eskimo) and should be considered in Newfoundland and coastal tribes on the West Coast
Rather than moving inland, doesn't it make more sense that the Deep One's fleeing from Insmouth would mirror the United Empire Loyalists from 150 years before them and simply move up-coast to Nova Scotia or New Brunswick (both of which are not only close, but border on Lovecraft Country on the maps provided by Chaosium)
- the radical Douhkobour (sp?) sects in BC who displayed their detachment from the material world by acts of arson and bombings.
hoo boy. Perhaps Sir John A Macdonald (our first Prime Minisrer) was actuallty a Cthulhu-buster when he ordered the killing of Metis cult leader Louis Riel back in the late 1800's.
A few other tid-bits:
- The bedrock of the Canadian Sheild is some of the oldest rock datable on the planet. Serpent People strongholds or Voornith outposts could be deep under the rock covering most of the east side of teh continent. The fact that most of the Sheild itself is unpopulated compared to teh St. Lawrence Seaway, would allow hybrids and entire communities to go unnoticed should teh right likenesses be consumed.
- Toronto has the highest population of Chinese people outside of China as landed immigrants. Pehaps Uncle Cheng has of the Seven Cryptical Books of Hsan mouldering under old copies of the Toronto Star used for wrapping fish in his Gerrard and Parliament grocery store. The Cult of the Black Fan could very easily be alive and well in central TO.
- Nazi POWs were held in very low security camps in Ontario and Alberta. The POWs wore shirts with huge red circles on them (which they joked were given to them so the guards would have a clear target to shoot at if they decided to run) Local farms would hire teh POWs to do work thattheir husbands and sons fighting overseas in teh war had left behind them. The general policy was one of "the easier we are on the Nazi boys, the easier they'll be with ours" and by-and-large this was true. Many many ex-prisoners develloped friendly relationships with their captors and came back to Canada after the war was over and bought land of their own. Canada has a *lot* of ex-war criminals in its borders. See the book *Escape from Canada* by John Melady (ISBN 0 7715 9256 6) for more info.
- Canadian soldiers were stationed in Korea and Vietnam, some as support troups, many asked for postings there to support friends and associates in teh US millitary by choice. Tcho-tcho survivors and others could very easily ask to be posted in the RCMP after they got back.
In short, there would be only one or two people who are fully cognizant of DG and MJ-12, and can distinguish between them. More people would have worked for one, the other, or both and think that it was a legitimate operation.
CSIS is way more by-the-book than the RCMP, which, unknown to most people outside of Canada has been severely sanctioned by the Canadian government in the past for their enthousiastic breaking of the law in order to "always get their man". As a matter of fact, it was this lawbreaking that led to a civilian agency being mandated by the government after the October crisis back in the early 70's. This, to me , would make CSIS the heart and mind of MJ12, and teh older RCMP people and their rookie associates more likely to accept DG as folks they could relate to, seeing as the RCMP has a history of resenting CSIS as well.
I hate to say this in this manner, but Europeans and other folks elsewhere in the world have a history of "liking" Canadians more than Americans when their overseas as well. This is what I'm told, anyway :)
If DG operatives could ensure that no-one was aware of the illegality of their operation, the RCMP and CSIS would be very co-operative here in Canada. The Canadian love-hate sentiment for "real" police forces like the CIA and FBI, made more glamourous recently by the popularity of shows such as Millenium and The X-Files(which, as soon as you mention it up here is usually met with the statement "They shot that in Vancouver, eh?"). Combine this with what must be a veritable truck-load of odd phenomina and UFO spottings all across teh country and there is teh makings for quite a lot of activity up here , punctuated by MJ12 busts and CSIS informners.
And all of it just across the world's longest undefended border , folks.
From: "gable"
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 00:05:17 -0500
hoo boy. Perhaps Sir John A Macdonald (our first Prime Minisrer) was actuallty a Cthulhu-buster when he ordered the killing of Metis cult leader Louis Riel back in the late 1800's.
Another Canadian PM, William L.M. King, had an especial interest in the occult. He bought a haunted house in Toronto, as I recall. That's what I've read, anyway.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 01:41:17 -0400
From: Majamane
As a Nova Scotian, I would have to say that the maritimes would be a strong area for Deep Ones. I've actually driven around and seen places that I thought could belong in Innsmouth, the local Surfwater Clam plant is an interesting one. It could probably be adapted easily, and the few times I've seen the insiede on tv it's always the smae room they show.
From: "Richard Pace" <moc.tceridi|ecapr#moc.tceridi|ecapr>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 10:28:03 -0800
Another Canadian PM, William L.M. King, had an especial interest in the occult. He bought a haunted house in Toronto, as I recall.
His obsession with the occult went way beyond that into holding seances to converse with his dead mother and dog and creating a mock cemetery on his family estate.
Several years ago I ran the Trail of Tsathoggua into a longer campaign where PM WLMK started a special Canadian department to investigate and interfere with strange occult phenomena. I called it Department Wonderland or Project: Humpty Dumpty. The department was divided into two groups - the researchers were called The King's Men, the field agents (most formerly RCMP or Canadian military) were called The King's Horses. Things went to a head when a Dhole was released in their downtown Toronto HQ.
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 15:20:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Womack
- Dr. Gerald Bull, an artillery expert who was involved in the development of a space gun to shoot satellites into orbit, fell afoul of the US and Canadian governments, and then sold his talents to the highest bidder. Notably, Israel and South Africa used his services.
Saw a movie on tv a couple of months ago on this topic. Check out "Doomsday Gun" starring Frank Langella (as Bull), Alan Arkin, and Kevin Spacey—imdb.com has this listed as a made-for-tv movie from '94, available on video.
Bull was the man behind HARP (the gun, not that other thing); the movie, in addition to showing how high-tech arms development gets done in the international arena (and the professional and personal risks such scientists can run—and we thought our Friendlies had a rough time of it!), puts the whole America-vs.-Iraq thing into an entirely new perspective (for me, anyway).
While the movie strikes me as thoroughly pedestrian work by all involved (hey, it was made for tv, after all), and is far from an edge-of-your-seat thriller, I nevertheless give it a strong recommendation as providing good background info for your simulations; it's got everything but actual Mythos involvement, and even that wouldn't be too difficult to interpolate, should you decide to lift the plot. Enjoy!
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:16:30 -0800
. In essence, DG teams working in Canada (or under Canadian cover overseas) are teamed with people who, if they even realize that they arn't working with a legitimate US government team, believe that they're working for MJ-12. (For the life of me, I can't remember the name of this tactic by intelligence agencies).
The most common term for this is "False Flagging".
I assume there are many others.
From: "gable" <ten.esorder|elbag#ten.esorder|elbag>
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 00:05:53 -0500
the planet. Serpent People strongholds or Voornith outposts could be deep
OK—clarification here. There are three races in the Cthulhu Mythos with similar names, it's all very confusing (especially seeings as two are pre-human Hyperborean races!).
Voormis=the "furry pre-humans" of HPL and CAS, who the Keeper's Compendium says are responsible for many Bigfoot sightings. I'm not sure if these lived underground; they didn't initially, but I believe they did later. Probably the race meant here. There are many Bigfoot sightings from the section of Canada in question…
Voors=another Hyperborean race, looked sort of like infants living in tunnels.
Vooniths=amphibious creatures native to the Dreamlands. Look like two-legged snakes (a lot like the legendary tatzelwurm of Germany, actually).
Some final Canadian Fortean events that are interesting (possibly) to DG:
- A "Creature from the Black Lagoon" was seen occasionally in 1972, at Thetis Lake near Victoria, BC. The description (and later sketch) of this creature scream Deep One, and given the prevalent New Age cults and Satanists in the area mentioned in the posting, you could easily come up with some sort of story involving Deep Ones present in Lake Thetis, their effects on cults, etc. Maybe the Canadian branch of the Esoteric Order of Dagon?
- Nova Scotia was also mentioned as a story source. I recall reading a legend surfacing from Inishmore (sp?), where there was a mound near town. Little figures occasionally seen, it's supposed to be an entrance to the faerie realm (presumably owing to the overwhelming number of Scots in the province). I can see this as a Dreamlands crossover point, or an entrance to K'n-yan, or something. Maybe a colony of Voors?
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 23:34:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Andrew D. Gable"
OK, just one last thing about the Beast of Gevaudan (blatant plug ahead): my website (in the SIG) has an article on the Beast, under Europan Cryptids. It's pretty, thorough, IMHO.
Now back to the closer-to-topic discussions.
The CryptoWeb: www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/7270/
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 23:22:59 -0500 (EST)
From: John Petherick
I don't know if this is actually the case as it is now.. Toronto is the main distribution point for a lot of hate literature that is printed and distributed throughout the US. This is sometrhing that is touched upon in the documentary "Blood in the Face" from a few years back
<deleted>
Yep, "Toronto the Good" is also home to Ernst Zundel, holocaust denier and Neo-Nazi. His websites lead to some very interesting litigation about the Internet. Primarily because, although they were hosted in Canada, the sites were in German, targetted at German youth, and included swastikas and other nazi symbols that are illegal in Germany.
In DG, someone like Zundel would be used as a "lightning rod" or mouthpiece by the Karotechia. Their only connection would be through multiple layers of cut-outs.
The Christie Pit riots (sometime in the 1930's) involved Jewish Zionists and a mixed bag of Nazi sympathizers and Italian Fascists. To my knowledge, the riots didn't result in any changes to government policy except, perhaps, more surveillance of the Fascists.
<deleted>
- The bedrock of the Canadian Sheild is some of the oldest rock datable on the planet. Serpent People strongholds or Voornith outposts could be deep under the rock covering most of the east side of teh continent. The fact that most of the Sheild itself is unpopulated compared to teh St. Lawrence Seaway, would allow hybrids and entire communities to go unnoticed should teh right likenesses be consumed.
I find this particularly interesting because several mines in Northern Ontario are planning to begin development below 9000' from surface. At that depth, disturbance of dholes, serpent people or other subterraneans becomes more and more likely.
(As I sit here typing, the 11 pm blast at one of the four nearby mines is shaking my apartment building).
Also, the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory, http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/ , cries out for treatment in any modern era conspiracy RPG set in Canada. The very thought of a solar / deep space observatory that is 6800' below surface has to be significant. Some kind of MJ-12 cover for Mi-Go activity, since the US Department of Energy is a funder?
- Nazi POWs were held in very low security camps in Ontario and Alberta. The POWs wore shirts with huge red circles on them (which they joked were given to them so the guards would have a clear target to shoot at if they decided to run) Local farms would hire teh POWs to do work thattheir husbands and sons fighting overseas in teh war had left behind them. The general policy was one of "the easier we are on the Nazi boys, the easier they'll be with ours" and by-and-large this was true. Many many ex-prisoners develloped friendly relationships with their captors and came back to Canada after the war was over and bought land of their own. Canada has a *lot* of ex-war criminals in its borders. See the book *Escape from Canada* by John Melady (ISBN 0 7715 9256 6) for more info.
Many German POW's were overwhelmed by the size of Canada when they were transported to camps in Northern Ontario. After a trans-Atlantic voyage, they're loaded on a train that takes days to reach their destination.
Looking out of the windows, they see miles and miles of nothing but rocks, trees and lakes before they get off. And the winter weather was similar to what they had heard about on the Eastern Front.
To my knowledge, only one camp has been preserved (Coldwell, on the shores of Lake Superior), but many have been converted to military training areas or provincial jails. As a sidenote, the POW's at Coldwell were given boats and nets because they had to catch some of their food from the lake, plus cut cordwood for heating the camp in winter.
From the same time, some of the Japanese-Canadians and foreign nationals who were interned were sent to camps in Northern Ontario. Some of these people, bitter at being imprisoned by their adopted home, may have resorted to rituals passed down through the family. Or some might really have been spies and saboteurs, possibly connected to the Karotechia.
- Canadian soldiers were stationed in Korea and Vietnam, some as support troups, many asked for postings there to support friends and associates in teh US millitary by choice. Tcho-tcho survivors and others could very easily ask to be posted in the RCMP after they got back.
Canada sent troops, ships and aircraft to Korea as part of the UN Force, taking part in the "police action" alongside the US and other troops. The Canadian military has participated in every UN peacekeeping mission, including Vietnam, since the first peacekeeping action in the Suez, which was initiated by Lester Pearson, a Canadian. Serving in places like Rwanda, Haiti, the Congo, the Golan Heights, Cyprus, Kashmir, Bosnia, etc. would very likely have resulted in some exposure to the Mythos. Strange experiences would result in continued surveillance or recruitment by groups interested in the Mythos.
Canadians have been enlisting in the US military (and vice versa) since the time of the Civil War, with a surprisingly large contribution from the First Nations (the current Canadian term). During the Vietnam era, most enlisted in the Marine Corps since it was a volunteer only force with a virtual guarantee of seeing action. I don't know whether their citizenship would bar them from Special Ops or certain branches of the service (the NOFORN security classification). However, members of the Six Nations (Iroquois), particularly those from the Akwesasne reserve, may be able to claim US citizenship.
From: "gable"
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 00:47:23 -0500
There's a brief write-up in Jerome Clark's UNEXPLAINED! about the Hollow Earth theories (good stuff for a DG / Karotechia / Point 103 scenario). To the best of my recollection, Ernst Zundel was mentioned there. Zundel had some sort of ideas that the Nazis lived on on the interior of the planet, and were sending out UFOs through some sort of cavernous mouth in Antarctica (some UFOs, he said, bore swastikas on the underside). It said there he was planning some sort of expedition to the cavern, which was to be bedecked with swastikas and other Nazi symbols, which would prove to the Earth-dwelling Nazis that they were friends.
BTW, are there any good websites (or print sources, for that matter) covering the Nazi "Iceworld" theories?
From: "David Farnell"
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:44:36 +0900
Ah, that silly Ernst! Reminds me of another book for the booklist:
_Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and other Confusions of Our Time_, by Michael Shermer
There's a section in there on Holocaust denial which deals with the whole movement including Zundel, and provides some insight into the mindset of these folks. It's a good book for those of you who are thinking "How can anyone believe this garbage?!" and it may help in GMing, too. It's also less rigid and uptight than most works on skepticism, and shows how skepticism can actually be beneficial.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:46:59 -0500
From: Joe Kilmartin
OK—clarification here. There are three races in the Cthulhu Mythos with similar names, it's all very confusing (especially seeings as two are pre-human Hyperborean races!).
I stand corrected and beg your pardon, I meant the Voormis all along. My exposure to them is from Trail of Tsthauggua, where they lived underground still worshipping their toad-like god. And yes, plenty of Sasquatch lore thereabouts.
- A "Creature from the Black Lagoon" was seen occasionally in 1972, at Thetis Lake near Victoria, BC. The description (and later sketch) of this creature scream Deep One, and given the prevalent New Age cults and Satanists in the area mentioned in the posting, you could easily come up with some sort of story involving Deep Ones present in Lake Thetis, their effects on cults, etc. Maybe the Canadian branch of the Esoteric Order of Dagon?
This is Made-to-Order, thanks. More likely they migrated/swam North and colonized the area straight from the Polanesians where the cult originated.
- Nova Scotia was also mentioned as a story source. I recall reading a legend surfacing from Inishmore (sp?), where there was a mound near town. Little figures occasionally seen, it's supposed to be an entrance to the faerie realm (presumably owing to the overwhelming number of Scots in the province). I can see this as a Dreamlands crossover point, or an entrance to K'n-yan, or something. Maybe a colony of Voors?
Given the prevalance of Irish and Scots ancestry in the area I'd go as far as making the beasties in question the Little People from the adventure suppliment that came with the Keeper's Screen a while ago. Very likely breeding with Dreamland Goblins who have openned a rift somehow. This is not that far away from Kingsport, all things considered. What is it about the East coast maritimes that invites intrusion from our collective unconcious?
From: Davide Mana
Date: 29/12/1998
- The bedrock of the Canadian Sheild is some of the oldest rock datable on the planet. Serpent People strongholds or Voornith outposts could be deep under the rock covering most of the east side of teh continent. The fact that most of the Sheild itself is unpopulated compared to teh St. Lawrence Seaway, would allow hybrids and entire communities to go unnoticed should teh right likenesses be consumed.
Much as I hate to play the spoilsport, I feel a little clarification is in order as for "the oldest rock datable".
Together with a few outcropping rock bodies in the extreme North of Europe and in the central portion of the former USSR (and possibly in Antarctica), Canadian Shield Rocks are the oldest stuff you can find around.
Everything else has been eroded away long ago.
While this is very good when you are out hunting for Pre-Cambrian Fossils, the possibility of finding anything under the Shield Rocks is close to 0, unless it's Shudde M'ell and his cronies you are thinking about: under the Canadian Shield, there's the Earth's outer mantle.
To this we can add the fact that digging in the Shield rock (massive peridotite, hard and heavy as hell) is very hard.
We can't exclude of course a network of galleries excavated through the action of some unknown agent.
The Canadian Shield, infact, is one of the oldest _outcropping_ rock bodies on the planet just because the latest glaciations scraped away all the sedimentary cover worth mentioning, together with the Serpent People temples and stuff.
Even if the SP or Hyborians cities were big massive things like the City of the Elder Things, they would not be on the Shield any longer - the glaciers, in their slow movement south, would probably have pushed them towards Florida with all their contents. Not exactly the ideal condition for a good preservation - but probably now we know what's exactly the Bimini Wall ;->
Granted - smaller structures (isolated buildings etc) could have survived if they were located on the southern side of small reliefs, hiding in the shadow. When the ice sheet crosses over the relief, a small undisturbed area sometimes survives untouched.
But we are talking real smalls edifices and structures.
So, some possibilities are still open, but need working.
From: Christian Conkle
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:25:07 -0800
Of course, we're assuming a non-Lovecraftian natural glaciation, and not a horrible cold blight brought about by Lomarian Wizards in their quest to destroy Hyperborea. Or whatever.
Or that the entire region wasn't smited by Ithaqua in his infinite arbitrariness by flash-freezing the entire area. The Ice Ages could have been unexpected side effects to any of the above events.
The great thing about the Lovecraft Mythos is that there are gods and wizards and Old Ones about to defy known and accepted science with their Eldritch Ways. Or, it just could be a natural glaciation.
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 21:44:33 +0100
From: Davide Mana
The great thing about the Lovecraft Mythos is that there are gods and wizards and Old Ones about to defy known and accepted science with their Eldritch Ways. Or, it just could be a natural glaciation.
<dead horse flogging>
Or it could be both.
I like my Mythos as rational as possible (Occam's razor and all that): I do not see why a supernaturally activated glaciation should have a different evolution compared to a natural one (assuming there are natural ones, of course).
So, all in all, I stick to my story: whatever the Hyborians had on the Canadian Shield, is by now in Cuba, or more likely in Kansas, as that's where the glaciers reached, IIRC - I know more American geology than most Italian geologists, but I have my limits.
</dead horse flogging>