THIS IS MATERIAL FROM THE ICE CAVE. IT HAS NOT YET BEEN FORMATTED.
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:14:36 EDT
From: moc.loa|rJrekaorC#moc.loa|rJrekaorC
3. HITTING THINGS WITHOUT A WEAPON
The Martial Arts skill is boring. Double damage: your foot is better than your rifle. Scary, but <yawn>. Here are some options:
(1) You can use Martial Arts skill to block melee weapon attacks. In the official rules, the target of an attack with a hand weapon can either (a) parry with another hand weapon, or (b) Dodge and forfeit all attacks, or (c) soak it up and hope for the best. With this option, a martial artist can block a melee weapon attack with a personal weapon parry (Fist, Kick, or Grapple) if the parry roll is lower than both the personal weapon skill and the martial arts skill.
(2) You can use the Martial Arts skill percentage instead of a characteristic-based resistance roll when resolving Grapple attacks (great for that Aikido expert doing joint-locks with STR 8—in real life, it happens); as a follow-up option, you could use the MA skill to determine the TARGET's resistance roll percentage instead of using stats: if the attacker's MA skill is 55%, the defender's resistance roll would be 100 - 55 or 45% (or his or her own MA skill, if any) instead of rolling STR vs. STR.
(3) You can Dodge and still attack in the same round (melee attacks only!). If the Dodge takes place before the character attacks that round, then if the MA fails the character can Dodge but cannot attack; after attacking, failing MA means the Dodge fails.
To keep the martial artists humble, I would recommend allowing only one of these options (OR double damage) to be used in a single round.
As a side note on martial arts, I advise dropping Kick attacks to 1d4 damage, not 1d6. I mean, take your pick: .45 slug in the chest, or Bruce Lee's foot? Neither would be fun, but I mean, really… Look at a gunshot autopsy sometime if you don't take my word for it. ;-)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:25:32 +0900
From: Jay and Mikiko Noyes
As a side note on martial arts, I advise dropping Kick attacks to 1d4 damage,
not 1d6. I mean, take your pick: .45 slug in the chest, or Bruce Lee's foot?
Neither would be fun, but I mean, really… Look at a gunshot autopsy sometime
if you don't take my word for it. ;-)
I usually take kicking and punching damage, as well as any concussion damage from anything smaller than a baseball bat as "knockout damage." After an hour or so, only a quarter of the damage is real damage. This way you can knock someone out without having to kill them.
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Colonel Panic
I usually take kicking and punching damage, as well as any concussion damage
from anything smaller than a baseball bat as "knockout damage." After an
hour or so, only a quarter of the damage is real damage. This way you can
knock someone out without having to kill them.
I do this for most, but allow the player to designate most of the time (unless under direct threat, where all blows are full-force) whether they are trying to kill or just maim.
Martial arts kicks can be horrible damaging if need be; I can either knock you out, push you down, or shatter your cheekbones - all with the same technique. It's all a matter of how much of my body weight I put into it. A solid kick can shatter bones and cause much internal damage. The hard part is adding realism without weighing the game down with rules, but with sound judgement and established guidelines, it can be done easily.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:37:14 GMT0BST
From: Robert Thomas
<Deletia>
I remember I was carrying a bokken (wooden training sword for
kendo, kenjutsu, etc—good for vampire fighting) that my father had given me
back from Hawaii once.
<Deletia>
They didn't see anything funny in the x-ray,
so I managed to get the weapon on board. I rather doubt it would've been
very useful if I'd suddenly decided to take over the plane, though. But if
there'd been any vampire hijackers…
Actually it's surprising how effective bokken are. After all this is what the peaseants in feudal Japan used whenever the local Shogun declared war on the neighbouring Shogun. They were used because actually getting a Katana or Wakizashi, (long and short swords), was
1 very difficult and expensive
2 only Samurai could honourable have them
A Bokken won't actually cause slicing damage but can be used as a clubbing instrument and a bone breaker because its designed for sword training. They can also impale, (handy for vampires). If you've got a nice Bokken they can be terrific fun because they are light and easy to use, also they can be made, (fairly), eaisly, after all they are just wood.
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:46:23 -0700
From: Josh Shaw
Robert Thomas wrote:
They were used because
actually getting a Katana or Wakizashi, (long and short swords), was
1 very difficult and expensive
2 only Samurai could honourable have them
Actually, before "Hideyoshi's Sword Hunt" (can't find exact date off hand but Nobunaga dies in 1582, Hideyoshi in 1598 so that gives us a window) peasants, monks, anybody who wanted one, could (and did) own swords. Only Samurai were legally allowed to carry the two swords on the street, but even that was often indifferently enforced depending on period, location and (especially) events.
A Bokken won't actually cause slicing damage but can be used as a
clubbing instrument and a bone breaker because its designed for sword
training. They can also impale, (handy for vampires)
If you've got
a nice Bokken
I do have one, and I for one am less than sanguine about anyone with anything approaching normal human strength driving it through human (or even vampiric) flesh with a thrust unless said flesh is backed against a wall or something. They're rather dull (as opposed to sharp and pointy) sticks.
they can be terrific fun because they are light and
easy to use,
No, not really. They weigh about the same as a real katana (that is the point after all) and like a katana require some skill to use effectively. Though I suppose a simple clubbing of an unprepared and unarmed opponent would be fairly simple.
also they can be made, (fairly), eaisly, after all they
are just wood.
Or bought cheaply enough at your local martial arts supply store (they *are* everywhere) or via mail order.
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 18:30:35 +0900
From: "David Farnell" <pj.en.tta.awi|fad#pj.en.tta.awi|fad>
Josh Shaw wrote:
Actually it's surprising how effective bokken are. After all this is
what the peaseants in feudal Japan used whenever the local Shogun
declared war on the neighbouring Shogun.
True, although there may have been several claimants at some times. But I've never heard of the bokken (usually called a bokuto these days in Japanwhen I got here, nobody but martial artists seemed to know what a bokken wasuses the same kanji, just different reading) being a common weapon. Musashi, the famous off-his-rocker swordsman, used one (two, actually) and
seemed to prefer it, but it's always as a rule been a training weapon for samurai; its use as an actual (though rather effective) weapon was a rare exception. It takes a lot of skill to use it more effectively than other, more readily available weapons.
Peasants were usually outfitted with spears, sometimes just simple bamboo poles with a point (like what many of the masses were expected to use to defend against invading Americans before Da Bomb made the issue moot). In a big battle, these are actually FAR more effective than swords anyway, especially in the hands of an untrained peasant. And it's much easier to become proficient with a spear, too. And MUCH better when fighting vampires, to tell the truth.
And, from experience, I know that in a fight between a spear-fighter and a sword-fighter of equal training, the guy with the spear will almost always win. Swordsters have to be real good to take a spearman. In my kenjutsu study group back home, we staged several fights with different weapons. We found that a good spearman (or spearwoman) could usually win against even multiple swordsters.
In fact, the primary weapon of the samurai was the bow, with the spear being the second most important. They carried swords, sure, but for most of them I think it was just because how could you be a samurai without the swords (kind of a really heavy police badge). But swords are superior in certain situations. It wasn't until the wars died down and the police state (which would have rivalled the modern one in N. Korea if the Shoguns had had modern spy tech) was established that samurai primarily fought each other with swords, in duels.
You might consider the sword as a bit like a pistol—it's deadly, and really cool, and the short one is very useful indoors (where the long sword and spears really suck). And it's great for testosterone-churning duels. But if you're going to go into a real battle, you want a bow and a spear (your "rifles").
They can also impale, (handy for vampires)
If you've got
a nice Bokken
Yeah, and the curvature makes it hard to penetrate with them. (Which is also why thrusts are less common in Japanese sword styles than in European ones.) Again, a spear is much better.
In the CoC game I played in at the time, we had a vampire situation, and the vamps suffered damage from wooden impact weapons as well (the way they worked was taken from the Saberhagen series of "Dracula in the modern world books"). So impaling wasn't really necessary.
One guy though had the idea to sharpen his bokken, tip and "edge," to get more damage. Of course the GM ruled that it broke the first time he rolled over 90, as he'd really weakened the structure. Since the only real advantage of bokken is that they're very tough and hard to break (a good one anyway, not that Asian World of Martial Arts crap), well, he was kinda dumb.
they can be terrific fun because they are light and
easy to use,
A baseball-like swing would do a fair amount of damage if it connected, but an actual baseball bat would do more with that style. Now, cricket bats—they look like they'd be very nasty in a fight. Never swung one though.
There are very lightweight bokken—they're made of cheap, porous wood and are often warped and break very easily. A good bokken should weigh about the same as a katana, a bit less probably (unless it's made of some exotic S. American hardwood, and then it'll run you several hundred bucks). There are massive ones called suburi-to that are used to strengthen the muscles. Slow swings but heavy damage.
Then there's shinai, which are used in kendo. Standard shinai are way too long and rather lightweight, and really don't provide a serious simulation of real swordfighting at all. Kendo is not a martial art, although it's always refered to as one. It's a sport, pure and simple. All real martial aspects have been removed. European fencing is more realistic. Agents who have extensive kendo training will have good balance and breathing and not much else to show for it regarding combat skills. Then again, they coulda been lucky and had a teacher who really kicked ass.
I know all this may be a bit off-topic, but it could prove useful to someone who's got players with ideas about using bokken as weapons.