THIS IS MATERIAL FROM THE ICE CAVE. IT HAS NOT YET BEEN FORMATTED.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 00:54:22 -0500
From: "R. Menzi"
They're going to put it to a vote, but the main thing is that Pluto doesn't have what it takes to make as a solar planet. Now, according to the BBC report, they aren't sure what it is. A really big comet or a moon that was pulled off one of the gas giants (by what?) are the most prevalent ideas at the moment. The people that claim the Mi-Go made it are just laughed at, but no one can really answer what put it where it is.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:06:51 +0200 (SAT)
In my game/worldview/setting, Yuggoth is in fact a large comet from the Oort cloud that was dragged into a closer solar orbit to serve as a useful base. This could have been done by one of several races, but my bet is on the Flying Polyps - they were the first extraterrestrial race in our solar system (? - other than Cthulhu and co, of course) and have that useful wind control thing, which could be described as an ability to create specific directional areas of gravity.
Of course, any player would have to get Cthulhu Mythos 50% plus from a scientific source (like Polyp-boy or Fun guy scribblings) to actually know this, so no-one will ever know :) but it could be hinted at.
ObDG: What if the Mi-go decided to create a new base, much closer to Earth - a staging area for their activities. An observant/unlucky astronomer could notice activity/lights on the Moon (or Mars) and try to make his knowledge public …
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 02:54:11 -0500
From: "R. Menzi"
ObDG: What if the Mi-go decided to create a new base, much closer to Earth - a staging area for their activities. An observant/unlucky astronomer could notice activity/lights on the Moon (or Mars) and try to make his knowledge public … «<
Why? Closer large-scale bases would be easier to reach and more of a risk, and less than needed with all those gates around.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:44:06 +0200 (SAT)
Why? Closer large-scale bases would be easier to reach and more of a
risk, and less than needed with all those gates around.
Ur. Good point. I was thinking of inefficient flying-through-space stuff (Mi-go with their wings, Greys with their ships). Oh, all right, I thought that up in the 30 seconds it took me to reply and was thinking much. But seriously, how much traffic can the Mi-go shunt through gates without someone noticing something? For example, if the Mi-go are mining rare ores from Earth and moving it to Yuggoth, and have been doing so for millions of years, wouldn't the orbits of both be altered slightly? So there is still something for the observant/unlucky astronomer to notice.
From: "Christopher Williams"
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:41:59 BST
My gods! A topic comes up on this ML that I actually know something about! Finally I can contribute! Finally I can prove my worth…
Pluto/Yuggoth is tiny. Really, really tiny. It's smaller than the Earth's moon, and only a litle bigger than Mercury. However, Mercury used to be bigger: being so close to the Sun for so long has meant that everything but the core has boiled away into space. Yuggoth is generally thought to be just a Really Big Rock (TM) from the Kuiper Belt (astreoid belt just outside Yuggoth's orbit).
Yuggoth was discovered by an astronomer who'd lost most of his credibility over Barnard's Star (He thought there was a planet orbitting it… turned out his telescope was wobbly.) When he discovered Yuggoth, the Astronomical community decided to give the old boy something to keep him quiet, so they let him call it a planet.
There is no fixed definition of the word "planet" in astronomy. It can refer to anything that isn't a star or star-like object. There are loads of lesser planets (big rocks) in our solar system: every so-often someone'll find a new one, and the newspapers'll have a fit. (NEW PLANET IN SOLAR SYSTEM! SCIENTISTS BAFFLED! etc)
ObMythos: Yuggoth was not observed before 1930. The first readings of it's position were variable and uncertain, due to lack of data. It is possible that the entire planet is nothing more than a Mi-Go worldship.
ObDG: (trying to think up new slant for old "crazed mythos astronomer" ploy.)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:22:12 +0100
From: Davide Mana
Christpher Williams postulated a Mi-Go worldship (I like that!) and wrote
His telescope was _not_ wobbly.
"I tell you there was a planet orbiting Barnard Star! It ain't there anymore but two weeks ago it _was_ there, and it was big!"
If only had his telescope been potent enough to let him see the big red eye…
Rather ironic, had they let him keep Yuggoth, and go public about it, so he'd keep mum on the "planet" orbiting Barnard Star.
Two cents in the Yuggoth fountain
Take care, and keep watching the sky.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 13:17:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "Andrew D. Gable"
Christpher Williams postulated a Mi-Go worldship (I like that!) and wrote
Hey! A Mi-Go worldship? How about Phobos, one of Mars' moons? I don't know if it's a Net Urban Legend or based on fact, but evidently Phobos' orbit pattern is all screwy. Author Frank Edwards says that Phobos might be hollow, but I take Edwards' words with a grain of salt (I could explain, but won't, it's too off-topic). But a cool idea…maybe the Mi-Go's lunar temple-base was raided by DG allies in NASA and now they use Phobos.
From: "Jimmie Bise, Jr."
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:13:26 -0500
Okay folks, I'm an amateur astronomer with only a smattering of knowledge in this subject, but I have a question. What disqualifies Pluto from being a planet? Sure it's just a hunk of rock, but aren't several other planets in our solar system? It has an irregular orbit, but what orbits in our solar system are perfect ones? Is there just some kind of committee that decides what is and isn't a planet?
From: Christian Conkle
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:55:49 -0800
For the straight info on Pluto's Planethood (or not), check out:
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:37:16 -0500
From: Graeme Price
Well, according to the 8th Januray issue of Science [Schilling, G. (1999) Science 283(5399) p157], there are moves afoot to reclassify Pluto as a "Trans-Neptunian Object", hence removing it's planetary status. This is because "Pluto turned out to be much smaller than all the other planets (according to recent estimates, its diameter is only 2200 kilometers), and its orbit is strangely elongated. It didn't belong with either the Earth-like rocky planets or the gas giants.", but more likely because some astronomers wanted to cause trouble. TNO's are effectively lumps of ice which orbit the sun (many as part of the Kuiper belt) such as the "ice dwarf" called QB-1 (about 200 km in diameter). Some astronomers think that Pluto fits into the classification of TNO better than it fits into the category of "planet". There are apparently over 70 TNO's already in existence, but if it is redesignated as a TNO, the official designation would be TN-1 (or TN-0), but this is all quite controversial and the Internation Astronomical Union is collecting votes on it at the moment. In practical terms, I don't suppose that redesignation will matter to anyone except astronomers (who periodically have to make some fuss about irrelevant details to prove that they actually *do* something!). Naturally, I'm way off base on this one (my field of scientific expertise runs to the sub-microscopic, rather than planetary, level!!).
On a slightly related note, there are apparently almost 10,000 recognised minor bodies (mostly asteroids) in the solar system - any or all of which could be a Mi-Go/Shan base, spawn of Ghroth, Yog Sothoth's gall stones etc.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:15:30 -0500 (EST)
From: The Man in Black
I thought that up in the 30 seconds it took me to reply and was thinking
much. But seriously, how much traffic can the Mi-go shunt through gates
without someone noticing something? For example, if the Mi-go are mining
rare ores from Earth and moving it to Yuggoth, and have been doing so
for millions of years, wouldn't the orbits of both be altered slightly?
So there is still something for the observant/unlucky astronomer to
Supposedly, the ores are accessed from points on Earth. That is to say, the ores the Mi-Go mine are Not-OF-This-Earth and exist in otherworldly dimensions that would drive a West Virginian Coal Miner out of his hard hat. What happens after mining or refining is another mystery. The ores might be taken to Yuggoth for refining or manufacture, but from thence might end up just about anywhere in this or any other universe.
Legend states that the Mi-Go came from Ursa Major or the Big Dipper constellations. This could mean the stars there, or that general direction from a gate in orbit, or from nebulas in that direction… the possibilities are endless.
We can also surmise that mass and physics can be ignored by the Mi-Go, perhaps the ores they mine are massless, or display mass in other dimensions. Who knows? Our pitiful human understanding will always be insufficient to ponder such esoterica.
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:52:00 -0800
From: "Mark McFadden
Which would make the mnemonic:
Mother Very Easily Made A Jam Sandwich Using No….uh, Tuna, Neoprene or Onions?
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:03:45 -0500
From: Steven Kaye
Or Phobos could have been a Mi-Go base for some time - fringe types have been wondering for sometime how Jonathan Swift knew to give Mars moons in GULLIVER'S TRAVELS.
Off to dig up Clark Ashton Smith's Aihai stories,
Date: 20 Jan 1999 08:38:18 GMT
From: "Jacob Busby Bsc."
I'm not so concerned about Spawn of Ghroth as what Ghroth spawned with :)